The War in the Ukraine

TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
I think you guys misinterpreted his words. He meant 3.5 Ukrainian for 1 Russian in Bakhmut not other way around. This is favorable to Ukraine because they outnumber Russians more than 3.5 to 1. That was his argument. I am not neccesarily agreeing with him but I think it would be unfair to read him wrong.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
TK3600 said:
I think you guys misinterpreted his words. He meant 3.5 Ukrainian for 1 Russian in Bakhmut not other way around. This is favorable to Ukraine because they outnumber Russians more than 3.5 to 1. That was his argument. I am not neccesarily agreeing with him but I think it would be unfair to read him wrong.
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People understandably see this from an operational/tactical viewpoint where people calculate where it makes sense to retreat or stay and fight till the end for each city/village/settlement.

However if you see this politically, Ukraine must defend literally every inch of its territory so that when the time comes for negotiations it will only lose the minimum territory that Russia has gained.
So yes, even ignoring a lot of casualties, and given that military victory is impossible for each side now, its in Ukraine's interest to defend as much as possible.

Once you lose land in an official diplomatic treaty, that land is gone forever. If you lose, lets say, some 20000 extra soldiers for defending a territory, that's not a big deal. Every year, babies are born all the time. Of course it will damage its national comprehensive power but given the state it is, that Ukraine is already in the abyss, if it moves a couple of metres more inside I don't think it will care.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Overbom said:
People understandably see this from an operational/tactical viewpoint where people calculate where it makes sense to retreat or stay and fight till the end for each city/village/settlement.

However if you see this politically, Ukraine must defend literally every inch of its territory so that when the time comes for negotiations it will only lose the minimum territory that Russia has gained.
So yes, even ignoring a lot of casualties, and given that military victory is impossible for each side now, its in Ukraine's interest to defend as much as possible.

Once you lose land in an official diplomatic treaty, that land is gone forever. If you lose, lets say, some 20000 extra soldiers for defending a territory, that's not a big deal. Every year, babies are born all the time. Of course it will damage its national comprehensive power but given the state it is, that Ukraine is already in the abyss, if it moves a couple of metres more inside I don't think it will care.
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Ukraine_population_pyramid_1.1.2021.png

See the dent at age 18-22? That was prewar.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
Ukraine_population_pyramid_1.1.2021.png

See the dent at age 18-22? That was prewar.
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Yes, but as I said, Ukraine is over as a country already. Some more thousands dead don't matter for them. You are trying to convince a drug addict to care about their mouth hygiene. They don't care, they are a mess already

Ultimately my point is that land once is gone, its really gone. While humans are replaceable. Yes, Ukraine has a demographic disaster but I don't think this is what is worrying Zelensky and his military. Their immediate concern is most likely what territory Ukraine will hold at the end of the war. Wiser leaders would mostly think about demographics but Zelensky is obviously not one of them
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Destroyed Ukrainian pickup.


Ukraine short of ammo. Destruction of Ukrainian ammo depot in Ugledar by Russian artillery isn't going to help.


Ukrainian observation post destroyed by ATGM somewhere in Zaporozhye.


Lancet hit a Krab.


T72B captured by Ukraine then used then destroyed by the Russians.

 
tankphobia

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
On a side note, as of late while Russia probably still have a fire superiority over Ukraine, they're no longer firing tens of thousands of shells a day like in earlier phases of the war.

Conversely due to shell starvation Ukraine also have an excess of artillery systems, only using something like 1/4 of tube capacity at the moment, I don't think destruction of individual artillery systems will damage Ukrainian fire volumes all that much, ammo stores will be much more impactful.
 
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