The War in the Ukraine

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
There was a drama several days ago that ended recently.

Russian MOD claim on supplying the Wagner PMC after Wagner complained of inadequate supply:

"Over the past 48 hours, the assault detachments have advanced a total of over 2.5 kilometres towards the prepared defensive positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Artyomovsk. The successful operations would have been impossible without entire fire support, provided to the offensive by the artillery, armoured hardware, and other firepower of the 'Yug' Group of Forces. Despite the difficult weather conditions near Artyomovsk, the Ground-Attack Aviation has performed 18 sorties to support the assault detachments' offensive operations over the recent days. This is why all the statements on the lack of ordnance, allegedly made by the assault detachments, have nothing to do with the reality.

Thus, within the 48 hours from 18 to 20 February, the volunteers of the assault detachments have been provided with: 1,660 rocket-propelled projectiles for multiple-launch rocket systems, 10,171 projectiles for large-calibre cannon artillery systems and mortars; 980 projectiles for tanks."

" In the next few days, all the ordnance requests, applied for February, will be implemented for all the assault detachments. Since 25 February, all the range of ordnance will be delivered in accordance with the request, applied for March. In total, over the last year, the assault detachments' ordnance demands had been satisfied 140 percent of the requests received. This is our priority."

If accurate gives an interesting approximation as to how much the Wagner PMC receives

dtZ-K85rNK0.jpg


Prizoghin responded by posted this data. Then the matter was settled according to him:

"
Prigozhin: Wagner PMC would receive the necessary ammunition.

"Today at 6 am it was reported that the shipment begins. Most likely, the train has moved. So far on paper, but, as we were told, the main papers have already been signed. I would like to thank all those who have helped us to do so. You have saved hundreds, maybe thousands, of the lives of the guys who are defending their homeland, giving them the opportunity to live on. Their mothers and their children will not receive coffins with their bodies," Prigozhin said."

If I am reading it correct:

In a 10-day period of attacking, the document claims that Wagner uses 187,000 shells and rockets. That's over 580,000 shells/rockets a month.

Since Wagner is holding back approx. 30% of the Ukrainian frontline forces, with minority assistance from army and separatist forces, perhaps a full Russian offensive stance all across the front would be in the region of 2 million shells/rockets a month.

So claims from NATO, Ukraine, and other analysts that Russia used 9 million or so artillery shells/rockets in 2022 can be measured against this.

also, Wagner claims that 'Bakhmut' has 50,000-40,000 Ukrainian troops. It is unclear whether this means just Bakhmut or the entire Bakhmut-Soledar-Siversk front. Probably the latter?

If this 50-40K refers to 30-25 Ukrainian brigade/brigade sized equivalents this means that on average the Ukrainian forces are completely decimated, reduced to their artillery component and remnants of their 3 infantry battalions, hence Wagner's increased rate of advance since early Jan 2023.

Just to be clear there were at least five Ukrainian brigades in Soledar alone, three might be considered elite such as the 128th, the 17th Tank Brigade and the 46th.

They were not given official orders to retreat. Any retreat or desertion they did so on their own.

They didn't inform the Polish mercenaries when they retreated leaving the Poles an involuntary rear guard.

At least 200 surrendered and captured. At the end of the mop up, a large shed was used to collect and inventory the bodies complete with grisly video of it. Don't ask me to post this.

A truce was negotiated to allow Ukrainian trucks to retrieve the dead. It is said that at least 20 trucks were used.

The survivors retreated southward but then again we know in the coming days and weeks what happened to the surrounding villages down south as each were overcome by Wagner.

Prigozhyn has claimed that Wagner alone had killed around 110,000 Ukrainians. But as always I take human casualty figures from both sides with doses of salt. Just letting you know what he claimed.

Given Wagner positions from neutral mappers, the last road to Bakhmut are now in ATGM and tank cannon range.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Vuhledar is clearly in an avantageous position against is surrounding while Bakhmut have higher evelation hill all around it. I can see Vuhledar fall when the Russian will go south from Marinka to hit it from the other side. For now it look futile to continue to lose troops to try to gain it.

But the troops defending Vuhledar are stuck there and cannot reinforce elsewhere if the Russians continue to poke it. Losing troops is the ugly part of attrition warfare from both sides...
The russians could have avoided the casualties at Vuhledar entirely by doing what they know best, just throwing a large concentration of artillery fire at the buildings to bring them down, as I very much doubt the ukrainians are taking positions from the skyscrapers, but between the penultimate and middle floors of the building, thus the only option for the AFU would be to retreat out of artillery range and wait to reoccupy a position. Allied to this with the ISR assets carrying out the coordinated fire action, it would be a real massacre.

What I see in Vuhledar is an experienced, well-trained army, not the russians, but the AFU, way better than the russian forces, with a tremendous lack of leadership from the russian commander. A commander who has defined Vuhledar as a goal to be conquered, has several options for the command to follow and is able to mix options.

1 - Perform a diversionary attack and a pincer movement

2 - Use airmobile troops

3 - Use SOFs and reconnaissance elements, infiltrate and designate targets and make small incursions opening gaps facilitating the main attack.

4 - Incessant artillery barrage

For example, it would be enough to launch an artillery barrage with coordinated action with ISR and DRGs, bring in airmobile troops and pull in armor and mechanized forces, making it difficult for ukrainians to know where the main effort will be. When you jump the airmobile troops with the support of an attack helicopter, it allows that force to stay very close to the first line of defense and thus allows you to assault the city.

I think asking for such coordinated action would be too much for the russians, but not a single option has been implemented. Another thing to be analyzed, these attacks will not be able to continue the way they are, the mud period is coming, when it starts to modify the terrain, the mud period will impact Russia's offensive maneuvers in the theater, they will even affect these maneuvers what they're doing in Vuhledar, whatever they're doing.
 
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drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Defense north of Bakhmut is collapsing. In last 24 hours Russians have taken Dubovo-Vasylivka and is now pushing towards Bohdanivka. Offensive also in progress from the south towards Ivanivske again.
very fast moving situation now, ukraine is going to have to commit some reserves for counterattack to stabilize the front like they did around chasiv yar a week ago.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The russians could have avoided the casualties at Vuhledar entirely by doing what they know best, just throwing a large concentration of artillery fire at the buildings to bring them down, as I very much doubt the ukrainians are taking positions from the skyscrapers, but between the penultimate and middle floors of the building, thus the only option for the AFU would be to retreat out of artillery range and wait to reoccupy a position. Allied to this with the ISR assets carrying out the coordinated fire action, it would be a real massacre.

What I see in Vuhledar is an experienced, well-trained army, not the russians, but the AFU, way better than the russian forces, with a tremendous lack of leadership from the russian commander. A commander who has defined Vuhledar as a goal to be conquered, has several options for the command to follow and is able to mix options.

1 - Perform a diversionary attack and a pincer movement

2 - Use airmobile troops

3 - Use SOFs and reconnaissance elements, infiltrate and designate targets and make small incursions opening gaps facilitating the main attack.

4 - Incessant artillery barrage

For example, it would be enough to launch an artillery barrage with coordinated action with ISR and DRGs, bring in airmobile troops and pull in armor and mechanized forces, making it difficult for ukrainians to know where the main effort will be. When you jump the airmobile troops with the support of an attack helicopter, it allows that force to stay very close to the first line of defense and thus allows you to assault the city.

I think asking for such coordinated action would be too much for the russians, but not a single option has been implemented. Another thing to be analyzed, these attacks will not be able to continue the way they are, the mud period is coming, when it starts to modify the terrain, the mud period will impact Russia's offensive maneuvers in the theater, they will even affect these maneuvers what they're doing in Vuhledar, whatever they're doing.

It's out of the hands of the Russian Army here, and they took zero casualties here. That's because this is all on the Russian Navy and the one conducting the offensive has been the Marines of the Pacific Fleet. They consist mainly of people north of the Amur and the Chinese Russian border in Heliojang. While well and perhaps overly motivated, they may not be as up to date like units in the Western and Central district that are facing NATO. Even as they are called marines, they are essentially a backwater force.

The artillery is provided however by the obtf Kaskad. This is probably the most effective of artillery, counter battery and drone force the Russians have, namely made up from the DPR. It's a force that specializes in artillery and drone warfare. They have been picking off artillery and armored units all over the Pavlovka and Ugledar regions. Recently their commander got promoted to colonel general by Putin, whatever that means in significance (Kadyrov was also promoted to the same rank).

The Ukrainians are reinforced by two elite artillery brigades and that may have given them a momentary parity if not the rare local superiority in artillery. However these units may have been pulled from the Kremenneya front, where it went badly for the Ukrainians despite the number of elite Ukrainian brigades used there (three fresh Russian motorized riflemen divisions were waiting and ready.)

In my view the disproportionate enormous consumption of ammunition by Wagner could be affecting the other units in different fronts. The MoD tried to even the distribution of ammunition so they could build up the other units. But Wagner howled over this (them being Putin's private army and do getters, with Prigozhyn as it's titular face) and got what they want but this will likely be at the expense of other units. Without sufficient ammunition stores, all the other units can do are limited offensives and artillery sniping until this Bakhmut thing is over or the Russians scaled up their ammunition production even more.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
In my view the disproportionate enormous consumption of ammunition by Wagner could be affecting the other units in different fronts. The MoD tried to even the distribution of ammunition so they could build up the other units.
How can you "even the distribution" when in manu cases Wager is the one fighting in intense battles? MOD's excuse that everyone gets the same ammunition was ridiculous.

Units should take ammunition depending on their local situation instead. Does a unit that stays defensive and fires a couple of potshots here and there deserve to take the same supplies as the tip of the spear of Russian units which actively participate in intense battles?

If Russia wants to make intensive attacks then obviously they need to prioritize their supplies to the units involved in the attack
 
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