The War in the Ukraine

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Russian attack choppers mostly operate at night from what I've seen. When they are used during the day, I've only seen them being used as mobile MLRS.

The issue with Russian attack choppers, is that they've never really had a good fire-and-forget PGM in large quantities. Izdeliye 305 has only been seen a few times in this conflict. I don't really see a pressing need for Ka-52M tbh, I think the original version was just fine.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
That's kind of my point. Both of these tanks are mediocre.



I'm aware that BVM uses Relikt. I was referring to the T-72B3 with the coverage comment. The gaps are absurd, and I don't think the issue is cost. I think the issue is production speed, and Uralvagonzavod is just being lazy and unimaginative.

The issue with the T-80 is that RF just doesn't manufacture them anymore period, so you might as well focus on upgrading the tank with more "headroom" for potential upgrades.
I'd say tanks or armored vehicles that don't have APS are going to be generally bad, especially if used in a similar to way to how NATO in Syria or Russia in Chechnya used them.

A Leopard 2A5 and a T80BV are so paper thin on their sides that even handheld RPGs can destroy them. They're relics of an era where tank battles were supposed to be on fields and valleys, where front armor was the only relevant factor.

If you use them to push into infantry, they're going to disappoint big time.

What's uniquely even worse for every Russian tank except T14 is that their reverse speeds are non existent.

Afaik this is a fundamental issue of all T72 and T64 variants. So as I see it, in terms of urban combat pushing potential, the T72 lineage is a dead end.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
The gaps are absurd, and I don't think the issue is cost. I think the issue is production speed, and Uralvagonzavod is just being lazy and unimaginative.

It was cost. The T-72B3M variant was a cheaper upgrade to what was supposed to be the T-72B2 Rogatka, as it just meant reusing the existing K-5 anchor points of the T-72B3 Obr 1989 as opposed to a redesigned ERA layout.

Rogatka also included the T-90's LWR and better thermals.

artem-okolovich-7.jpg


Similar issue to that of the Su-24M2 vs Su-24M Gefest, Russia goes for the half-assed upgrade to save a few pennies. They are paying the price for penny-pinching now which I guess they realized and it is the reason we seem to be seeing a lot of T-90M's out and about.

The issue with the T-80 is that RF just doesn't manufacture them anymore period, so you might as well focus on upgrading the tank with more "headroom" for potential upgrades.
They don't make T-72's anymore either and T-90M's are mostly T-90A's hulls.
 
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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Do we have a real hard number of this ? because missiles are countable objects.
No, but you can get a "feel" for these sorts of things based on what footage is shown and what weapons are being used.

LMUR (Izdeliye 305) has been used in some promo shots during this war, but there's very sparse footage of it being used. Most of the munitions I've seen in videos are the same old laser-guided missiles like Vikhr or Ataka at night. So in my opinion, the production rate of LMUR is either very low, or RuAF wants to build a decent stockpile before using them. Either way, they haven't been used much.


It was cost. The T-72B3M variant was a cheaper upgrade to what was supposed to be the T-72B2 Rogatka, as it just meant reusing the existing K-5 anchor points of the T-72B3 Obr 1989 as opposed to a redesigned ERA layout.

Rogatka also included the T-90's LWR and better thermals.

View attachment 105802


Similar issue to that of the Su-24M2 vs Su-24M Gefest, Russia goes for the half-assed upgrade to save a few pennies. They are paying the price for penny-pinching now which I guess they realized and it is the reason we seem to be seeing a lot of T-90M's out and about.


They don't make T-72's anymore either and T-90M's are mostly upgraded T-90A's.
I don't think it's cost and I'll tell you why.

The T-72B3 has been iteratively upgraded with a better engine and better gun since it's been first introduced. These are fairly high-ticket upgrades, as opposed to Kontakt-V layout which is really just a matter of welding a proper steel frame so that you can insert Kontakt-V blocks in a uniform way. The way you see in B2 Rogatka variant or the T-80U.

They don't make T-72's anymore either and T-90M's are mostly T-90A's hulls.
I don't think this is true. I've read from Russian primary source before that T-90M deliveries before the war, were a mixture of upgraded T-90As and brand new T-90Ms.
I'd say tanks or armored vehicles that don't have APS are going to be generally bad, especially if used in a similar to way to how NATO in Syria or Russia in Chechnya used them.

A Leopard 2A5 and a T80BV are so paper thin on their sides that even handheld RPGs can destroy them. They're relics of an era where tank battles were supposed to be on fields and valleys, where front armor was the only relevant factor.

If you use them to push into infantry, they're going to disappoint big time.

What's uniquely even worse for every Russian tank except T14 is that their reverse speeds are non existent.

Afaik this is a fundamental issue of all T72 and T64 variants. So as I see it, in terms of urban combat pushing potential, the T72 lineage is a dead end.

T-80s have decent reverse speed. It's actually been cited as one of tank crews' favorite tanks to use on the front because of that.

I also don't think that tanks without APS are "bad". It's actually fairly hard to hit and destroy tanks if they are used properly, and Russian tank use has improved considerably since the start of the war.

IMO, I'd much rather be in a tank rather than be in an APC or IFV on the front.
 

typexx

Junior Member
Registered Member
T-90M Video of viewing device and control panel of the PNM-T sight.

The Biden administration is considering sending 30-50 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, US official says
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Germany will supply at least one company of Leopard 2A6 tanks to Ukraine, Spiegel reports.
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Dagens Næringsliv newspaper reports that Norway is considering the possibility of transferring 8 x Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. Norway has 52 Leopard 2A4 NO units in service, of which only 36 are in active operation, and the remaining 16 are in storage.
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Intrepid

Major
The production of war weapons is now being ramped up in Europe and the USA. The situation is similar to that at the beginning of the 1980s, when there was NATO's double-track decision, but with many more countries involved.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
There's certainly a lot of talk of increasing weapon production @Intrepid , but to be honest, I haven't seen anything substantial. Not in terms of actually "making" the weapons. There's deep issues in the industrial base that need to be addressed before a large amount of weapons can be delivered.

Happy to be proven wrong though.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
The production of war weapons is now being ramped up in Europe and the USA. The situation is similar to that at the beginning of the 1980s, when there was NATO's double-track decision, but with many more countries involved.
Well , then lot of real estate agents and lawyers will start to work as foremans and engineers in manufacturing plants.

Well, will be interesting .


Or they can order weapons from China and Russia, say they lift the sanctions on the Russian weapons.
 
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