The Snowden Affair

MwRYum said:

The latest news is that he did left HK, and guess what, aboard an Aeroflot flight to Moscow. Well we all need to wait at least 12 more hours before we know why he at the end did something that'd give his critics' claim the ironclad prove…

But for everyone in HK and perhaps China as well, they can all tell Uncle Sam that this is no longer their problem anymore…now US have to face Putin the strong man of Russia.

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Actually I see it like this. US government had just shot themselves in the foot. Snowden went to HK as his first stop, providing all the reasons why he did so. His reason was pretty much saying he came here because he's a whistleblower, not a defector, and thus as a person of the "free world", he'd pick where there's liberal democratic values that permits sufficient neutrality that enables his stay as relatively unrestrained. When Cheney started accusing him of being a spy, he laughed it off, and this move of heading to Moscow could be a way to act in the face of the Dick, or because of US officially asking for his head and he felt it's time to move on. It could be that he planned this out all along before heading to HK, or he's been contacted while in HK. Furthermore, I speculate he could actually a spy for Russia, or that he was independent and was in contact with either Russian or Chinese officials who talked to him while he's here in HK. In a sense, I'm not surprised if HK government and the Chinese government knew where he was the entire time. In fact, he may even had received advice from HK government about what they can and cannot do, and perhaps even receiving news that he's in imminent danger recently.

While I had no advance knowledge or predictions that this happened, in a sense I also feel everything also completely made sense of how it came out right now when I hear it now. HK government might not have been as stuttering as we thought, and might have been acting really sharp behind the scenes. If I recall, Regina Ip stated more than once during the press release that Snowden can apply for asylum but HK otherwise will only act according to law, hinting HK can only do so much, or as a cover/signal for Snowden with special meaning while behind the scenes he's been contacted by the government or even protected by certain units in a covert manner. Meanwhile HK government might be buying time for things behind the scenes or while doing something behind the scenes. In fact, maybe even Moscow contacted Beijing, and then Beijing provided instructions to get Snowden out of HK while HK government pulled on the typical facade. To believe that all this to happen without coordination is impossible. If Snowden really disappeared onboard a flight to Moscow just like that, it won't make sense HK release this news statement. Apparently at least HK government knew of it at some point along the way. Maybe after the wanted came out, HK government approached him and granted him the options of heading off to somewhere of his choice, or Chinese/Russian officials came and gave him an offer. HK probably did knowingly grant him safe passage out of the city intentionally.
And of course now facing Putin, US will find themselves in a really tough spot trying to get him.

My more advanced sinister theory could be that he's a double agent, and the true intention all his mission was intended to burn Sino-American relations in the wrong way (coinciding with Xi's visit) by throwing himself into HK to throw out inflammable news to heat up both countries, then head off elsewhere. He most likely may not be working for China or Us or even Russia at all. In fact he could be rogue, sleeper, or just something that doesn't exist in the periodic table of elements.

Either way, his work in HK is done.

airsuperiority said:

Either way, his work in HK is done.

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He has left a lot of questions on what the NSA et al have been doing spying on HKs telecoms infrastructure.

The scale of the NSA Spying operations must be massive if China has given the following statements.

China labels US a ‘villain’ after latest Snowden claims By Kathrin Hille in Beijing

China has called the US a “villain” following the latest wave of accusations against Washington over cyber surveillance by former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, in a sign that the case could add pressure to ties between the world’s two largest economies.
The South China Morning Post quoted Mr Snowden in its newest report as saying that the US National Security Agency “does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cell phone companies to steal all of your SMS data.”
This followed allegations by Mr Snowden a day earlier that Washington had hacked into Tsinghua University, home to one of China’s main telecoms network backbones, as recently as January.
“These, along with previous allegations, are clearly troubling signs. They demonstrate that the United States, which has long been trying to play innocent as a victim of cyber attacks, has turned out to be the biggest villain in our age,” Xinhua, China’s official news agency, said in an editorial published Sunday.

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From the beginning I always thought this affair was very very strange. it's when the U.S. are putting more and more pressure on China on cyber espionage with Obama who said he will confront Xi Jinping on cyber spying during their summit that a guy emerges suddenly out of the shadows and reveals a world wide top-secret NSA cyber spy program. And as if that was not strange enough he ends up in hong Kong.

I may be wrong, but I would not be surprised that all this whole affair is managed from Beijing. This is Beijing response to the white house on these charges that lasted for years.

escobar said:

And as if that was not strange enough he ends up in hong Kong.

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I have read a lot of comments on this line. But logically which countries in the world is Mr Snowden NOT going to be sent straight back to the USA? Every other "democratic" country would have sent Snowden back to the US in 24hrs.

I am pretty sure the Guardian newspapers advised him also as well as Julian Assange's wikileaks lawyers.

lostsoul said:

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Well done the HKSAR Gov. for not kowtowing to the US Gov.

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I knew it, he's heading towards Russia under the protection of Vladimir Putin.

escobar said:

From the beginning I always thought this affair was very very strange. it's when the U.S. are putting more and more pressure on China on cyber espionage with Obama who said he will confront Xi Jinping on cyber spying during their summit that a guy emerges suddenly out of the shadows and reveals a world wide top-secret NSA cyber spy program. And as if that was not strange enough he ends up in hong Kong.

I may be wrong, but I would not be surprised that all this whole affair is managed from Beijing. This is Beijing response to the white house on these charges that lasted for years.

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Remember lasts years meeting between the US and China diplomats that cause a row during their meeting when the
Chen Guangcheng incident occurred? I think this is China's payback for that, and I have to say the MSS did a pretty good job. Not only is Edward Snowden is a way bigger Ace of dissident than Chen Guangcheng, but prove to be a more bigger headache for Washington and the Obama administration. Now the entire world and in the US had learned about the truth behind all the liberal hypocrisy on some of the organizations in the US government.

It's called controlling the narrative. The Obama administration is only trying to do damage control to the American people assuring that no laws were broken and Americans are not being outright spied upon without due cause. Yeah what about the rest of the world? It essentially says they're spying on everyone else in the world without restrictions. Which brings up if they believe that's okay, then what are they complaining about of what they have been accusing China? This basically gives the okay for every other country to do it and to especially the US.

I was watching the morning news round table shows and one person said Snowden revealing the US has been hacking China for years was out to hurt the US. What hurt the US is pointing the accusatory finger at China and making it out that it's only a one-way street and the US doesn't do such things. That means China knew all along the US was a liar after being publicly vilified. When the US tries to punish China for something they do themselves, you think China would be cooperative in the future knowing they're dealing with a liar? Beijing already knows the US is a liar. Most Americans I hear the reason why they hate China is because they believe the Chinese are lied to and taught to hate Americans. Well China can use that same logic against the US.

What the critics of Snowden don't really like is not that he hurt the US but he didn't help perpetuate the lie. The Superman movie Man of Steel just came out and some critics have come out angry at the internationalization of Superman when he's America's hero. Well wasn't Superman for truth, justice, and the American way? You can knock the first one out because this scandal shows lies are being protected. Which automatically knocks the second one out because if you lie there can't be justice. So the only thing left is the American way. Now the excuses for hacking into China fall in line that everyone does it. Maybe they should've acknowledged that from the very beginning instead of saying the US doesn't do such things. The spin is Americans are not outraged at even the possibility that they themselves are being spied upon by their own government. If that's the case and if the US acknowledged they spy and hack other countries including China then maybe Snowden would still be someone no one ever heard of working in his cubicle in Hawaii right now. Who would Superman protect? The one that revealed the truth or the one that lied?

This affair is a huge faux pas for Washington and Obama, the leader of the world's only superpower. Predictably, the media, being dominated by the west, have not touched anything on this aspect.

If it was China that made the flub, western journalists would have a hell of a time shredding China's reputation, using phrases such as "huge embarrassment", "red-faced", "a country that values face", "major gaffe", etc.

AssassinsMace said:

It's called controlling the narrative. The Obama administration is only trying to do damage control to the American people assuring that no laws were broken and Americans are not being outright spied upon without due cause. Yeah what about the rest of the world? It essentially says they're spying on everyone else in the world without restrictions. Which brings up if they believe that's okay, then what are they complaining about of what they have been accusing China? This basically gives the okay for every other country to do it and to especially the US.

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Why'd a US President care about what the rest of the world think? Only the US citizens who has the voting rights matters. Thought that is common sense.

I was watching the morning news round table shows and one person said Snowden revealing the US has been hacking China for years was out to hurt the US. What hurt the US is pointing the accusatory finger at China and making it out that it's only a one-way street and the US doesn't do such things. That means China knew all along the US was a liar after being publicly vilified. When the US tries to punish China for something they do themselves, you think China would be cooperative in the future knowing they're dealing with a liar? Beijing already knows the US is a liar. Most Americans I hear the reason why they hate China is because they believe the Chinese are lied to and taught to hate Americans. Well China can use that same logic against the US.

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Not surprising if that was on Fox News, but matters not if on other channels, because obviously the Americans already accepted China is the "the other side" in the new Cold War, the only difference is that western media largely avoid the reality of the "New Cold War" between China and US like the "F" word. Hell, Hollywood already doing their best to make China fills in the role used to be Soviet Russia's.

Anyway, the latest development is that Snowden is to do a stopover at Moscow, then later to fly to Ecuador with a stopover at Cuba and Venezuela...Dick Cheney will be in no time come on to Fox News and said "I told you so"...

My guess is we will have more of the same in future, as fellows like Snowden are considered "heroes" by some quarters even if they have done treacherous deeds to their own countries (Remember Kim Philby of MI6 in the 1950s who spied, scooted and was decorated by the USSR). Wise to know the ancient Sun Tzu's saying "know yourself & know your enemies, a hundred battles, a hundred victories". I assumed a few professional security agencies like Mossad never underestimate their opponent/s, but several have become careless and over-confident - therein lies the "chinks in their armours". Nevertheless this relatively new "liberatarian" & "social activism" philosophies subscribed by the young generation need to be examined very closely by psychologists and experts when employing people in sensitive appointments I suppose.

lostsoul said:

I have read a lot of comments on this line. But logically which countries in the world is Mr Snowden NOT going to be sent straight back to the USA? Every other "democratic" country would have sent Snowden back to the US in 24hrs.

I am pretty sure the Guardian newspapers advised him also as well as Julian Assange's wikileaks lawyers.

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More news emerged about Snowden's flight...though the US did voided his passport following the announcement of the extradition request, apparently those from Wikileaks managed to obtain Ecuador-issued refugee status travel documents for him. That said, he did travel with "valid documents"; and since HK government gave the US some red-tape treatment, Snowden was still principally a free man when he boarded the Aeroflot SU213 flight to Moscow.

Now, the following leg of the flight will be an interesting one...it's hard to get a commercial flight to his destination without going through US airspace, so what'd stop the US from scrambling a flight of F-16s to escort the civilian jet down to a US base?

In the next few days the HK government will get a lot of heat from all sides, critics already accusing CY Leung for not doing enough to help Snowden, but seriously what more could HK government do? The most they could do in this case is not to have Snowden being gift-wrapped to the US Consulate, and stalling US extradition request just long enough for him to jump ship...from the beginning HK ain't, can't and won't be the last stop, or safe haven for Snowden, at most HK can buy him some time to catch a breather and to plan for the next few steps.

advill said:

My guess is we will have more of the same in future, as fellows like Snowden are considered "heroes" by some quarters even if they have done treacherous deeds to their own countries (Remember Kim Philby of MI6 in the 1950s who spied, scooted and was decorated by the USSR). Wise to know the ancient Sun Tzu's saying "know yourself & know your enemies, a hundred battles, a hundred victories". I assumed a few professional security agencies like Mossad never underestimate their opponent/s, but several have become careless and over-confident - therein lies the "chinks in their armours". Nevertheless this relatively new "liberatarian" & "social activism" philosophies subscribed by the young generation need to be examined very closely by psychologists and experts when employing people in sensitive appointments I suppose.

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If CIA and NSA from now on hire new blood exclusively from those who never left the Bible Belt, they might be able to find those who are politically agreeable recruits, but in terms of competency is another matter. Besides, "liberatarian" & "social activism" philosophies originated largely from the US anyway, or at least the US media promote them heavily overseas, and in this rat arse economy, the displeased youth would easily find accord with those ideology.