The Snowden Affair

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SampanViking

SampanViking

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t2contra said:
If the idea is that he is working for the CIA against the NSA, then it is still too mind-boggling when you consider the consequence of Snowden's revelations and the damage it has done and will do to the US spying program and the country as a whole. Smells like 9/11 conspiracy all over again. If the CIA wants to work against NSA, all Snowden has to do is to let it all out to the Obama administration on the quiet.
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If the above was true, then you have a very worrying situation as this would transcend simple institutional rivalry, but indicate that Institutional loyalty was no longer national but falling along party lines. Presumably with the CIA being Republican and the NSA, Democrat.

In other countries, such Institutional Partisanship are early indicators of State failure and instability.

You really would need far more than just one cause-celeb to seriously assert that any such division was happening and you would need to see social and political division in the US far greater than traditional democratic rivalry.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

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SampanViking said:
If the above was true, then you have a very worrying situation as this would transcend simple institutional rivalry, but indicate that Institutional loyalty was no longer national but falling along party lines. Presumably with the CIA being Republican and the NSA, Democrat.

In other countries, such Institutional Partisanship are early indicators of State failure and instability.

You really would need far more than just one cause-celeb to seriously assert that any such division was happening and you would need to see social and political division in the US far greater than traditional democratic rivalry.
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That smells like Japan until the end of WW2.
 
solarz

solarz

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Looks like Snowden is going to settle down in Russia. Wonder if Anna Chapman's marriage proposal is still on the table? ;)
 
Equation

Equation

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solarz said:
Looks like Snowden is going to settle down in Russia. Wonder if Anna Chapman's marriage proposal is still on the table? ;)
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If I were him I'll take that proposal in a heart beat. I'm thinking of that old James Bond song and movie "From Russia with Love" in my head.:eek:
 
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pissybits

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Looks like the Merkel government were complicit in the US spying program on EU citizens, I wonder how this will effect the German elections, would a new party even make a difference?

Should the the Christian democrat party and its members be prosecuted or the whole German government and its intelligence agencies? Since this is essentially aiding American industrial espionage
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I doubt they had much of a say in the matter, Germany as a major exporter depends on the U.S. in many ways. I don't think they have enough bargaining power to refuse to play ball with the States.

Just look at all the European countries that stepped into line when America forced the rerouting and search of the Bolivian president's plane a while back. The E.U. is divided and weak-willed compared to the U.S., not to mention their current economic doldrums. They (Germany included) simply have too much to lose by going against America.
 
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pissybits

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MwRYum said:
The truth is that for doing what he did, he probably broke more laws then the extradition order listed, so I never have a doubt he'd be guilty in US court, otherwise Manning should've been acquitted under the same ground.

What the US authority might be fear for, is that unless the trial can be conducted in secret (zero media coverage), the due process might expose even more stuff, stuff that currently put the US at the leading edge of the cyber-espionage game.

What the outside people like us argue about is that Snowden did the world a service in exposing the hypocrisy of US, in the end the US officials have to grudgingly admit espionage is something every nation do to everyone else's, and indirectly admit if they call China a crook under those light, the US is actually the biggest crook of all. Obviously a Nobel Peace Prize nomination for Snowden is nothing more than a farce (it's not like against China, the committee won't even dare to offend the US), but nonetheless the US got a taste of knocked down from the high horse.
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Oh but such an inside trial like you describe could very well happen in today's America, seeing how much the FISA Court's powers have been expanded raises some alarming questions about whether a judiciary separate from the executive still exists.
 
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advill

Junior Member
The fact that Russia gave him asylum is a real snub to the USA. We will observe how Obama will react to Putin/Russia over this dilemma. Most countries will judge whether he is only "all talk" or is really a determined US President.



Jeff Head said:
I am not sure for how long. The Russians only gave him a one year temporary asylum.
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MwRYum

MwRYum

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Jeff Head said:
I am not sure for how long. The Russians only gave him a one year temporary asylum.
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But that also mean Mr. Snowden have a year to plan his next few steps…or maybe the same to be said for the US, like how to make that guy apparently die from some freak accident, or snatch him up from the street on Moscow, on express freight back to the US, with a stopover at the darkest hole in Gitmo.
 
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advill

Junior Member
I doubt the US is going to make a martyr out of Snowdon. He and those who betrayed their countries are considered very lucky to live in democratic societies, as there are justice and laws to deal with them. If Snowden was a Russian, he could indeed be a target for assassination ....... Remember the poison-tipped umbrella that killed a USSR defector/spy in London years ago? Also in recent years how "plutonium" was given and killed a Russian in London because he was considered a "traitor". This case is not closed and the Russians have refused to cooperate with the British investigators. That's how they usually deal with these defectors/traitors in autocratic countries ....... & worst still their families can also be targeted.




MwRYum said:
But that also mean Mr. Snowden have a year to plan his next few steps…or maybe the same to be said for the US, like how to make that guy apparently die from some freak accident, or snatch him up from the street on Moscow, on express freight back to the US, with a stopover at the darkest hole in Gitmo.
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