Yep good point I missed. if all alleged kills were with S-400 means we would have other nations particularly China and US with constant space based observation through multiple means and constellation types. You would have a very different set of global activity and geopolitical messaging coming out of India, Pakistan, Russia, US and China over the last 3 months if this were the case. Very different messaging but from all the major players, it's India completely fucked up or just a shake of the head and facepalm.
The Kashmir conflict 2025.
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Yep good point I missed. if all alleged kills were with S-400 means we would have other nations particularly China and US with constant space based observation through multiple means and constellation types. You would have a very different set of global activity and geopolitical messaging coming out of India, Pakistan, Russia, US and China over the last 3 months if this were the case. Very different messaging but from all the major players, it's India completely fucked up or just a shake of the head and facepalm.
If we know the Russians TASS would pounce on saying that the S-400 shot down all those planes. Yet very unRussian like they haven't.
There is so much wrong in that fighterheads post I wont even bother.
What the are chances IAF folk say they know how to use s400 better and physics defying than the russians???
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Good Piece of Advice for the Indians:
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D
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1. “India hasn’t reformed — still denies losses despite evidence.”
Actually, that’s verifiably false.In 2025, India’s Chief of Defence Staff publicly acknowledged the loss of IAF jets during Operation Sindoor. These weren’t buried statements or off-the-record leaks — they were made on record, in front of the media. Not as damage control, but as a matter-of-fact admission.
Meanwhile, Pakistan has a long, documented history of hiding its military losses. During Kargil (1999), it refused to even acknowledge that its soldiers had been involved. Indian forces had to bury their dead. That’s not a rumor — it’s historical record.
India is not unique in facing scrutiny — and certainly not alone in managing war narratives.
2. “India is making up kill claims again — like 2019.”
Let’s be honest — we’ll have to wait for hard proof either way.The kill claims aren’t being accepted at face value by many within India itself. They're being debated, challenged, and dissected, especially in defense forums and think tanks. That alone tells you this isn’t some monolithic propaganda state.
Some media bits have emerged that suggest the claims may hold water, but whether they’re accurate will only be confirmed with time. There is no “universal buy-in,” and there’s no pretending that they’re above scrutiny.
3. “They overhyped their strikes — even Houthis do this.”
You’re comparing India’s targeted counter-terrorism operation with Houthi missile spam campaigns?Let’s get real.
The goal of Operation Sindoor wasn’t to dazzle with range. It was to eliminate nine high-value terror camps across PoK and Pakistan proper.
Targets were verified using satellites, real-time ISR feeds, and missile camera footage.
Satellite images showed complete destruction of multiple structures — something you couldn't conclusively say about Balakot in 2019.
India did this under threat of full PAF mobilization, while maintaining escalation control and keeping the theater conventional.
This wasn’t showboating. It was measured retaliation with operational clarity. War isn’t an airshow — it's about hitting the objective and pulling out before escalation traps spring, which in case can be called to have sprung with downing of Indian fighter jets.
4. “They gave medals to people for imaginary victories — bad for morale.”
Let’s retire this point. It’s 5 years old, and based on your interpretation of one incident that you already don’t trust — the 2019 Abhinandan shootdown claim.You can debate the award, but his conduct under capture and return without compromise is a military morale event, not a strategic doctrine marker.
Also, can you point out to any proof of moral being down among the Indian armed forces. Any mass resignation or protest or internal documents suggesting internal tensions. I don't think you can, because these things are simply not happening.
AFAIK the Indian military personnel dont wake up everyday seething that they did not destroy Pakistan or that it still exists, they too are normal people and just go about their day to day duty and carry out the work assigned. The point of them being demoralised is simply comical to say the least.
5. “If leaders believe their own hype, they’ll stop improving.”
This is where your logic collapses.The IAF Chief and CDS didn’t declare a flawless mission. They publicly acknowledged what went wrong, praised the enemy’s defense coordination, and made it clear that further improvements are necessary. They said this alongside, not instead of, celebrating operational wins.
Public messaging isn’t internal doctrine. What you hear in media or speeches is often crafted for public stability, not strategic transparency. Internally, post-op assessments are done with brutal honesty — because real lives depend on it.
Even Pakistan and other militaries use bold rhetoric in public. That doesn’t mean they believe their own headlines behind closed doors — and India is no different.
So no — you’re not revealing some hidden weakness. You’re just mistaking surface chatter for core strategy.
So what you’re doing is mistaking public messaging for internal doctrine. Thats simply not the case.
You’re mistaking the chatter for the calculus.
Munir ie Chad.
Hi,
russians might not pounce immediately coz PAF has shown some restrain during 2019 not showing
electronic signatures of Su30 been shot down on the Indian side but during the briefing by PAF OF COURCE
russian military attaché was present to shown them the mig21 wreckage will all the missiles been intact without
been fired by pilot officer Abhinandan another plausible denial of Russians not coming into this mess then
pakistan has to even USA has to come clean with the f16 saga
thank you
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Fair enough — but if you truly think my points are off the mark, I’m open to hearing why. Brushing it all off without addressing a single part doesn’t really move the conversation forward. If I’m missing something, lay it out. I’ll respond in good faith. If not, then maybe the disagreement isn’t as strong as it sounds
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Labeling Asim Munir a 'chad' feels like a surprisingly shallow take, even by the usual standards here. I would’ve expected a bit more critical engagement, especially considering how complex and controversial his role really is. He’s comparable to some of our own politicians who push religious rhetoric — the difference being that Munir operates with far more power and significantly greater capacity to actually implement his vision. That should invite scrutiny, not shallow praise. Please refrain from doing so.
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