The Kashmir conflict 2025.
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If they actually did that do you seriously expect India to keep this quiet for three whole months?
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Deleted member 34044
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1. “I don’t care about India enough to dig deep... but it’s funny.”
If you openly admit you don’t care to study the country seriously, then why speak with such certainty about it? You can’t claim India is failing across the board while also saying you have no interest in understanding how it actually functions. That’s not analysis — that’s just projection dressed up as commentary.
2. “Why would people want change if they think India did well?”
That logic assumes people only demand change when there’s public humiliation. Not true. Reform often comes from institutional self-assessment, not Twitter outrage. The Kargil conflict led to major structural changes despite India claiming strategic victory. Same goes for the 1962 war — humiliation led to complete doctrinal overhaul, but not because the public demanded it.
Defense is a closed ecosystem. Reforms are usually top-down, slow, and barely ever driven by mass opinion — in any country. That includes Pakistan and China too.
3. “If public perception doesn’t matter, that’s corruption.”
No — it’s called civil-military separation. In almost every country, strategic decisions and military reforms are not determined by public polls. The U.S. didn’t build the F-35 program because of public outrage. Russia didn’t reform its army due to social media pressure. These processes happen internally — slow, bureaucratic, and largely out of public view.
Calling that “corruption” is a misuse of the term. If anything, India’s problem is excessive red tape and inefficiency — not deliberate deception to suppress reform.
4. “You’re Indianly imagining success; Pakistan blew IAF out of the sky.”
Again — emotionally loaded, factually weak. A few jets downed>>achieving mission objectives seems to be the general view held on these defense forums and that's totally expected. Fortunately, the military apparatus and think tanks have a different view than the forums or media.
IAF's objective was to hit the terror camps and it did so spectacularly, even releasing missile kill feed and satellite imagery.
Pakistan Air Force, despite fully knowing that India was gonna strike, could not stop it from striking those camps. Yes, you downed a few jets but the enemy had already achieved its original objective. If you believe that no terrorist died then prove to me this is fake
Also, this event cannot be seen as a pointer to how an actual India-Pakistan war would go as historically, as in every war that they have fought, Pakistan has always started big and then slowly faltered or failed to achieve objectives, ultimately stalemating or losing the war and their territory in the process.
5. “What’s India doing to improve? Just lying.”
Actually, India has been investing in a variety of upgrades post-2019 and we'll see even more post Op Sindoor:
- Ordering more indigenous Tejas MK1A jets and pushing MK2 and AMCA programs forward. I am sure you follow them very closely despite you personally viewing India as a joke.
- Acquiring Rafale-Ms for carrier operations and developing indigenous naval fighters.
- Accelerating S-400 air defense integration and developing an Indian equivalent of it.
- Expanding its UAV fleet with MQ-9B SeaGuardians and indigenous UAVs. RPSE is in advanced design stages and prototype development is slated to start soon, technology demonstrator has been flying for over a year.
Not perfect? Far from it. But “doing nothing” is just incorrect. You’re equating public silence and institutional delays with institutional inaction. That’s just lazy reading of events.
6. “You’re saying lying isn’t embarrassing. That’s India in a nutshell.”
No — I’m saying information management during war is normal, not admirable. Lying happens everywhere, from Israel to the US to China to Pakistan. If you think Pakistan didn't lie during Kargil, or China didn't downplay Galwan, you're in denial.
The difference? Some nations are just better at packaging it. India’s public nature makes it easier to spot and meme. Doesn’t mean others aren’t doing the same — just with tighter state control and fewer leaks.
You’re basing your entire argument on the assumption that India officially denied all losses, but that’s just not true.
In both the 2019 and 2025 incidents, the Indian military publicly acknowledged its own aircraft losses — including the MiG-21 in 2019 and other aircraft in 2025. These weren’t covered up in press briefings or denied in official statements. What you’re likely referring to are claims made by social media accounts, news anchors, or random Twitter users — none of which represent the Indian military’s official stance represented by the Serving (not retired) chiefs and personnel. In the press conferences and Interviews, losses were never denied ,but just not answered straightforwardly as "Yes we lost X amount of fighters" and neither was "No we did not lose a single fighter at all" was heard at all.
Let’s not confuse public chatter with military briefings.
If you’re going to criticize “uniquely Indian lying,” at least make sure you’re quoting the actual institution, not some nationalist meme page.
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Deleted member 34044
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That was no dream. That sub in general is full of teenagers blabbering nonsense and ranting after having a bad prep day for JEE or NEET. Very few people their are credible. Also, you went there on a sunday, that too right after the ACMs announcement, so its a given that they will be shitposting for some time. You should go there after some time have passed and then see the reaction and questions.
Also, You're reading too much into Reddit commentary, they should be taken that seriously. /r/IndianDefense is not representative of Indian military thinking, nor of the broader Indian public. Most of the loudest voices there are either teenagers, meme-posters, or armchair enthusiasts — not policy shapers, not serving officers. Assuming future doctrine will be shaped by Reddit pride posts is a massive stretch.
I originally linked these subreddit to tell you that discourse is there and not everyone is blindly believing the claims made.
Also, you conveniently refrain from mentioning r/India thread about the topic where they fully believe that these statements are meant to sway attention away from the recent political scandal against the ruling party.
And as for this line
That may sound nice in theory, but in India's defense context, it's often pressure from geopolitical necessity, budgetary constraints, and bureaucratic audits — not public shame — that actually trigger modernization and procurement shifts.
For example:
- The push for indigenous drones, missile systems, and fighter programs was driven by strategic urgency, not viral outrage.
- Reforms after Kargil came from internal reviews like the Kargil Review Committee, not public humiliation.
- Even the Balakot aftermath resulted in acquisitions (like S-400, more Rafales, better air-to-air missiles), not because of "shame," but hard lessons from operational gaps — acknowledged internally rather than done on suggestions from the Field Marshals at SDF or PDF or r/IndianDefense.
Case in point: If india had achieved these kills(basically a destruction of the entire aerial kill -chain-AWACS/J10C's etc) and had total air superiority/supremacy over the skies of Pakistan-bombing airbases,Islamabad/Karachi etc with impunity like Israel over Tehran.Why would india accepted any ceasefire;mediated or otherwise-it's just not in their non-benevolent nature.BTW,this foolish,foolish ACM/IAF move will be a horrendous slippery slope of total embarrassment ,disrepute and ridicule especially if PAF shows up with evidence that will show the IAF /ind-gov't as outright liars.It will even endanger any deals for TOT of engines weapons etc-nobody wants to be associated with inept,clownish incompetents for any amount of money.
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You can try to explain with mental gymnastics all day
At the end of the day, why didn't the IAF make these claims 3 months ago when they were bombarded by news that Pakistan shot down their jets?!?
The IAF never acknowledged the number of jets India lost, so if they are truthful like you suggest, did India lose any jets at all? You mentioned that India acknowledged downed jets before, why not now?
yeah... funny how india "won" the air war as they claim but then move all their fighters over 300km further east, away from Pakistan and also ground the airforce the next day. IAF did not fly into action after that. IAF did not perform any strikes after the first day. Funny air victory from India if that's the case. Why then resort to only using suicide drones and brahmos missiles in following exchanges with Pakistan. Pakistan has video of hitting India bases. India wouldn't have done any of this if they had control of the air. They'd also have evidence of shooting down Pakistani aircraft. If those aircraft were all hit in their airbases, first of all, that's not an air to air victory but ignoring that, they'd also have videos/photos. There's only one that shows one Pakistani hangar hit. India tossed over hundreds of suicide drones and dozens of Brahmos missiles. They managed to get a total of a few hits on Pakistani military targets. Pakistan had like 50 SAMs in operation and half of that is for nuclear exchange and still India couldnt completely flatten Pakistan. Mate you wouldn't last 2 hours in a war with China.
Pakistan didn't conduct a nationwide censor and internet blackout. India did. Well Pakistan hasn't said it did and its citizens were free to post on twitter in fact Pakistani citizens did share videos of Indian drone strikes on Pakistan. Indian meanwhile, blocked over 8000 twitter accounts from inside and outside of India from sharing videos that were initially made online showing IAF losses such as the at least 2 Rafale fighters, Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000 and possibly a Mig-29 shot by Pakistan.
Pakistan didn't conduct a nationwide censor and internet blackout. India did. Well Pakistan hasn't said it did and its citizens were free to post on twitter in fact Pakistani citizens did share videos of Indian drone strikes on Pakistan. Indian meanwhile, blocked over 8000 twitter accounts from inside and outside of India from sharing videos that were initially made online showing IAF losses such as the at least 2 Rafale fighters, Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000 and possibly a Mig-29 shot by Pakistan.
Even by their own admission the “kills” were achieved via S-400 and not jets. Seems like an admission that their aviation arm is useless.
I used to think that India was maybe 30% the military might, read capability to achieve military objectives, of China. I now think China could conventionally match India with just unmanned ground and airborne drones alone in a war over land only. India would run out of artillery rounds before the drone factories finished shift for the day.
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