plawolf
Lieutenant General
Indian ingenuity allowed them to merge S400 Brahoms so when the new hyper-missile hit enemy aircraft, the explosion is so terrifically powerful, no part of the target survives! Jai Hind!!!
The Kashmir conflict 2025.
- Thread starter ohan_qwe
- Start date
Indian ingenuity allowed them to merge S400 Brahoms so when the new hyper-missile hit enemy aircraft, the explosion is so terrifically powerful, no part of the target survives! Jai Hind!!!
You’re presenting a very simplistic and surface-level take on Indian defense affairs, with heavy assumptions based on what’s visible to the public — not what actually drives military institutions.
First, if senior IAF officials make bold claims, it’s fair to question them. But jumping from that to “mission planners and intel officers will become overconfident and doomed” is a leap. The Indian military doesn’t operate in a vacuum — it’s deeply influenced, and often constrained, by political and bureaucratic layers. What’s said in public is not always what’s believed or acted on internally. Remember this when talking about India, as every country and its military have different organisational structures and Public outreach.
Second, the claim that India “lied openly in 2019” ignores actual data. While the Balakot strikes didn’t come with flashy footage at the time, open-source satellite imagery (Planet Labs, Stratfor, IISS) later showed structural damage at the Jaish-e-Mohammed camp. You can debate effectiveness — but not whether a strike occurred.
Now in 2025, the IAF has released missile camera footage and post-strike satellite imagery. Yet again, it’s being dismissed as fake. So what’s the standard here — if India says it, it must be false? That’s not skepticism, that’s confirmation bias.
You also claim India will keep failing because it celebrates fake wins. If that logic held, 2025 should’ve been a disaster too. Instead, India conducted precision strikes with documented evidence, escalated carefully, and avoided wider conflict. Not exactly failure.
As for institutional reform: Pakistan outright denied its soldiers were even in Kargil in 1999. They left bodies unclaimed. Yet somehow, despite zero accountability, you argue Pakistan’s military improved as they performed in this conflict. Why? Because the real changes happened behind closed doors — not on Twitter, not in press conferences.
Same applies to India. Internal reforms, doctrinal shifts, procurement priorities — none of that plays out on social media. Public perception, for better or worse, doesn’t dictate operational evolution.
You’re looking for lies because you’ve already decided they exist — and now you’re just reverse-engineering the narrative to confirm that. Try looking a bit deeper.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
No, you are attempting to cover extreme behavior with much common behavior. Lying is not all the same level. If Russia claims that Ukraine lost many more soldiers than Russia did even though it's not sure, that's common behavior during war. When India denied losing any Rafales despite there being Rafale parts on the ground being photographed, that is a unique Indian level lie. When all of the evidence shows that India suffered several jets shot down, and no evidence of any Pakistani jets shot down yet India claims the opposite, that is a uniquely Indian level lie. Your friend scratched his car on his mailbox post; you drove yours off a cliff and it exploded. It's not, "everyone has mishaps driving."
1. I don't care about India enough to dig deep into its affairs. That country is not important or interesting to me, but it is funny. I don't see significant progress; I see them buying expensive foriegn crap and making up stories of success when they fail.
2. Logically, why would these people want change if they think India did well? The drive isn't there.
3. If public perception does not shape India's trajectory, that's called corruption. So basically, you're saying that when India fails, it fools its public into thinking that it succeeded and if seen through and challenged, it does no good anyway. That just totally supports the narrative that India is screwed.
4. It is not that we are stuck in a bubble, but that you are very Indianly imagining Indian success or the seedlings of success when you have only real life failure. Pakistan blew the IAF out of the sky, yet it's already talking about improving its air force, getting J-35E, etc... What's India doing to improve? Making up stories about shooting other people's jets down when its own jets were the only ones shot down. And what are you doing? Saying that that lie isn't embarrassing but normal. That's India in a nutshell and that's reality no matter where you want us to get our sources on India from.
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The reason its not a leap is because when someone like Airchief is saying 'we did such and such' that sets the 'operational ability', if newer people that wont know the truth come up,including pilots that assume that 'such n such' is our level, but it actually ISNT that can turn into a disaster
Thats even worse, If open lies are said in public to protect image, I doubt internally the many personal are gonna be happy about the completely different reality they lived vs what was said in the open, bad morale.
And those who didnt live it, will believe the public version too.
Thats a a lie again:
Hitting group of trees doesnt mean 'damage at camp', strikes occurred 300 meters away on trees.
No one here is denying the 10 missiles hits on various airbases, We question its effectiveness sure but no one is denying it.
The fake part is the new stuff ACM said yesterday about 'PAF planes'
But 2025 WAS a disaster
Sure it applies to india,
But from 2019 to 2025 in 6 years they havent reformed, they are still doing the same thing, maybe even worse now.
1) deny own losses vehemently even tho evidence is so much(All the majors power via their own methods know about it)
2) Claim the losses actually are the other sides, make fake claims about shooting F16 (literally history repeating itself)
3) Overhype airstrikes when there wasnt any doubt they should be able to do it or not,
Just FYI The houthis can do these strikes from 2000 miles away, on the most air-dense layered system on the planet in a small space.
in 2019 they gave medal to the pilot who got captured for 'Shooting F16' that never happened, His Mig still had missiles unused on it, What does that do for the morale of the other/new pilots? Crash, survive, get medal for shooting down imaginary enemy plane?
IAF thought they did so well, they got new platforms but acted the same way.
If people within the decision making chain assume everything ACM said as 100% true that they 'Pushed Pakistan on the brink of defeat, destroyed planes, airfields, they were grounded' then they already believe they are the 'top dog' and they dont need to improve, they will keep making decisions based on this false information.
@FighterHead:
From the lens of cultural economics: the preferences and priorities of Indian culture are misaligned with, if not impede India's geopolitical ambitions.
In other words: a not insignificant number of people believe Indian culture is ill suited for, if not relatively adverse to achieving the economic, technological and political outcomes necessary for India to rise to the status of a superpower, or even a pole in its own right under 'multipolarity.'
The IAF Chief of Air Staff's recent nonsensical lies — concerning alleged IAF kills against PAF aircraft in May 2025 — are a reflection of the cultural impediments obstructing the rise of India.
However, there might be some debate as to whether the 'cultural challenge' principally exemplified here is: (a) the lies themselves; (b) the factors motivating the lies; (c) the incredulity — or unconvincing nature and poor quality — of these lies from the perspectives of outside observers; (d) the appetite ordinary Indians have for eating up such blatant lies; or (e) some combination thereof.
I respect your desire to better your country.
TBF, in no way should we be surprised that there are some clear headed people in India: it is after all a country of 1.4+ billion people, and outliers are inevitable when the sample size is large enough.
However, there's a reason why Redditors aren't usually taken seriously anywhere: there might be a few that are objective and insightful, but the overwhelming majority of users from those communities reflect the broader limitations of the cultures and conditions that produced them.
From the lens of cultural economics: the preferences and priorities of Indian culture are misaligned with, if not impede India's geopolitical ambitions.
In other words: a not insignificant number of people believe Indian culture is ill suited for, if not relatively adverse to achieving the economic, technological and political outcomes necessary for India to rise to the status of a superpower, or even a pole in its own right under 'multipolarity.'
The IAF Chief of Air Staff's recent nonsensical lies — concerning alleged IAF kills against PAF aircraft in May 2025 — are a reflection of the cultural impediments obstructing the rise of India.
However, there might be some debate as to whether the 'cultural challenge' principally exemplified here is: (a) the lies themselves; (b) the factors motivating the lies; (c) the incredulity — or unconvincing nature and poor quality — of these lies from the perspectives of outside observers; (d) the appetite ordinary Indians have for eating up such blatant lies; or (e) some combination thereof.
I respect your desire to better your country.
TBF, in no way should we be surprised that there are some clear headed people in India: it is after all a country of 1.4+ billion people, and outliers are inevitable when the sample size is large enough.
However, there's a reason why Redditors aren't usually taken seriously anywhere: there might be a few that are objective and insightful, but the overwhelming majority of users from those communities reflect the broader limitations of the cultures and conditions that produced them.
We believe what we saw and discussed to death on the past 400 pages of this thread which is just confirmation after confirmation of Indian losses. "No concrete evidence" .. hundreds of videos were posted on this thread, aircraft parts littered all over the ground.
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[Unrelated to above post]
Note how one of the Indian military's response after suffering losses was that "government told us not to engage military targets, but only Jihadi camps". But once their airforce got grounded, they did exactly that - target military assets with cruise missiles. In other words, self-confirmation that military targets WERE planned but airforce failed.
Indian Expert Journalist, Yale Professor writes about the recent ACM claims, thread has some further screenshots of the article
Damn I didnt think of it this way, Hmm
Maybe I dreamed up having a peek at /r/IndianDefense to see what they think of the evidence-free claim of downed fighters and Saab AWACs.
They seem to be very proud of shooting down so many Pakistani jets in the air, near total victory. A good chunk of the demographic that thinks like this are going to be serving in the Indian military the next time there's a skirmish. And they'll learn the lessons of misplaced overconfidence the hard way.
Pride doesn't drive reform, shame and accountability does.
You don't actually believe that nonsense, do you? PAF didn't purchase 500 AMRAAMS's for Afghan Air Force.
Indian leadership needs a strong narrative (true or false doesn't matter) to keep it's ignorant voter base pacified. It's a very feudalistic society. The world may not buy Indian propaganda, but if Indians buy it, it's a win for the elite leadership class.
You gotta remember, Indian society is brainwashed on the story lines of bollywood fantasies, where Pakistan is the villain and India is the hero who always wins. Scoring a victory of any kind against Pakistan is a huge political boost. The 2019 skirmish was India's first try; it failed but the Indian public was pretty convinced of an Indian victory which increased Modi's rating. 2025 was a huge blunder, one that even the extreme right wingers in India were skeptical of, thus requiring an extreme false narrative for domestic consumption.