The Kashmir conflict 2025.

Observer1

Junior Member
Registered Member
It’s the Bekka Valley of South Asia. Only the grace of PAF prevented IAF from suffering Syrian level losses. Pakistan’s achievements are arguably more impressive since they went up against aircraft of same generation whereas Israelis had superior hardware.
It's quite ironic how Indians dream of emulating Israel but in practice it does feel Pakistan matches closer. Even India's retaliation was a classic Iranian/Houthi type missile salvo, vs Pakistan responding with ALBM strikes against alleged air defence systems, exactly how Israel did after the Iranian missile strikes.
 
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AlexYe

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's quite ironic how Indians dream of emulating Israel but in practice it does feel Pakistan matches closer. Even India's retaliation was a classic Iranian/Houthi type missile salvo, vs Pakistan responding with ALBM strikes against alleged air defence systems, exactly how Israel did after the Iranian missile strikes.
To further expand on that analogy,
Pakistan could be 'China's Baby' , Like Israel is 'America's Baby' (esp when you look at defense collabs)
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
It's quite ironic how Indians dream of emulating Israel but in practice it does feel Pakistan matches closer. Even India's retaliation was a classic Iranian/Houthi type missile salvo, vs Pakistan responding with ALBM strikes against alleged air defence systems, exactly how Israel did after the Iranian missile strikes.

Pretty ironic yeah…

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The Soviet military newspaper
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announced that "sixty-seven Israeli aircraft, including modern US-made F-15 and F-16 fighters, were downed" in the fighting. The newspaper also reported a meeting with a Syrian airman who recounted an engagement in which he shot down an Israeli F-15: "The victory had not been easy; the enemy had been subtle". Even within Soviet ranks, these claims met with great skepticism.
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In 1991, Ivry met a
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general who had been serving in Moscow in 1982. He told Ivry that the operation made the Soviets understand that Western technology was superior to theirs, and that in his view, the blow to the Beqaa Valley SAMs was an impetus to
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and the
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.
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sequ

Major
Registered Member
HQ-19 is not for sale its RN the top of the line Chinese AA system thus is rather sensitive plus Pakistan would not be able to afford the cost of using HQ-19 much less than buying it. Also to use it properly you need a whole system of radar sites setup which costs even more money and is impossible to deploy rapidly


How time tells innit ;)
 

Black Wolf

Junior Member
Registered Member
HQ-19 is not for sale its RN the top of the line Chinese AA system thus is rather sensitive plus Pakistan would not be able to afford the cost of using HQ-19 much less than buying it. Also to use it properly you need a whole system of radar sites setup which costs even more money and is impossible to deploy rapidly

People often point to budget constraints when discussions arise about weapon system acquisitions. However, it's important to understand that budget allocations are not the primary factor behind major defense procurements. Instead, such decisions are driven by the strategic importance and necessity of the acquisition for national defense.

In the context of Pakistan, point to be considered is an estimated 60–80% of the economy remains undocumented, which complicates accurate assessments of fiscal limitations.

Below is the detailed overview of Pakistan's undocumented economy cross-posting from Pakistan Military thread....

Informal economies are typically resistant to direct taxation, and Pakistan is no exception. While estimates vary, the figure of 60–80% for Pakistan’s informal sector is widely accepted.

As for how such a large informal sector may still support defense imports despite being outside the regular tax net, there are several indirect mechanisms, many of which are deeply rooted in Pakistan’s institutional structure:
  1. Military-Linked Business Empires: A significant portion of the informal economy is tied to the military control’s vast commercial interests through entities like the Fauji Foundation, Bahria Foundation, Shaheen Foundation, the Army Welfare Trust and Askari Bank. A key component of this empire is real estate, with housing projects like DHA (Defence Housing Authority), Shaheen Towns, and Falcon schemes generating massive untaxed or lightly regulated wealth. Revenues from these ventures, operating under preferential conditions, can be redirected into defense or institutional expenditures.
  2. Smuggling and Informal Border Trade: Despite the fencing of borders with Iran and Afghanistan, large-scale smuggling of Oil, consumer goods, and other commodities persists. This shadow trade, often tolerated or facilitated under the umbrella of the military establishment, contributes substantially to the informal economy. The enduring presence of these networks suggests high-level protection or complicity, with some proceeds potentially recycled into state or military-linked ventures.
  3. Institutional Control Across the Board: Perhaps most critically, Pakistan’s military establishment exerts systemic control across virtually all sectors of governance and civil life. This includes the judiciary, civil bureaucracy, police, media, industrial and commercial sectors, and political class. The military has long played a central role in shaping election outcomes, installing or removing governments, and engineering political alliances. This grip allows it to ensure their institutional interests along with personal gains & continuity of defense funding regardless of the civilian government in office
  4. Remittances and Foreign Exchange Flows: Overseas remittances, often routed through hawala/hundi networks. These funds are later formalized, adding to the country’s foreign exchange reserves which are used to pay for critical imports, including military hardware.
  5. Indirect Taxation: While direct taxation is largely absent in the informal sector, the government still captures revenue via indirect means such as sales tax, fuel duties, and customs levies on goods and services that are part of the informal economy’s supply chain.
In essence, while Pakistan’s informal economy cannot be directly taxed in the traditional sense, the military’s overarching control of state structures, strategic economic sectors, and even political processes allows it to harness these informal flows whether via commercial profits, indirect taxation, or shadow revenues for institutional priorities, defense, especially personal enrichment and kickbacks.

 

kursed

New Member
The launches and video you mentioned are clearly from 10th May, when Pakistan responded by targeting the Indian BrahMos site. This is separate from the 6th and 7th May engagements, during which all the air kills actually occurred.

So, using that footage to discuss the JF-17’s role or loadout in the earlier fights is inaccurate. It’s important to keep the timeline clear to avoid mixing details from different phases of the conflict.
Folks, when you find a single JF carrying kill marks, do update. There won’t be any.
 
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