The Kashmir conflict 2025.

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GiantPanda

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JayBird said:
I remember very well Indians were boasting about Rafale would dominating J-10C with Meteor and the godly SPECTRA when they first got them. And even J-20 were paper tiger from Temu that get tracked by their Su-30MKI.

But sadly Indians were not alone, I see quite a few Pakistani members including mods who have the same opinion on J-10C vs Rafale on their site back then. Thea's why it was so satisfying to see the result the last few days.
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Yah, a bunch of Western Europeans be beating up the French and all pissing on Indians for losing three Rafales to Temu fighters on reddit.

IMG_6676.jpeg

This is the second DeepSeek moment for the warplanes community. (First was unveiling of J-36 and J-XDS on the same day.)
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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iewgnem

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GiantPanda said:
BVR weapons are in fact easier to defeat compared to IR WVR ones. (Read up on history of Sparrow and radar AAMs.)

The reason is quite simple. You need radar lock-on for BVR (okay USSR had tested some long range IR) which triggers all the defense mechanism of the target aircraft -- MAWS, jammers, other ECM, i.e. SPECTRA on the Rafale.

What makes the PL-15E special is it most likely pulled off that theoritical kill chain you need against a modern fighter like the Rafale. The fact that the kill shot struck the Rafale at long range behind its own lines means that SPECTRA was unable to activate. Either the Rafale was jammed to the point of befuddlement or it was the PL-15's lock-on not happening until the Rafale was within its no-escape zone. The PL-15's lock-on lighting so late would mean mid-course guidance from another source.

Whether or not any old BVR weapon can do that to a modern Western aircraft remains to be seen.
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I don't think people really comprehend how insane it is for PL-15 to have a ~600 element AESA

~600 element AESA means you get all the fancy beam-forming, sidelobe supression, multi-beam and null beam fun, of course also Low Prob Intercept mode and if they want to go to town also EW jamming of target. Previously people only knew PL-15 used AESA but not how many elements, and the assumption is it's not a high number due to cost, but I guess this is China we're talking about.

Every other BVR missile from Meteor to AIM-120D uses old school pulse-dopplar radar. Europe has been working with Japan on upgrading Meteor to AESA and Americans plans on putting AESA on AIM-260. If that's their idea of state of the art then it's unlikely SPECTRA will be capable of even detecting against, nevermind resisting PL-15's AESA seeker.

I would not be surprised at all if the Rafales had zero warning up to intercept and all pilots were killed.

(yes the photos are PL-15, not HQ-9, divide PL-15 diameter by Ku band 1/2 wavelength and it matches photo)

GqczGIhawAAmyas.jpgGqczGJxWoAATcYe.jpg
 
LCR34

LCR34

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GiantPanda said:
Yes. And the kills in this skirmish are done by the export version from 2015!
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On available PL15 information. It was seen tested 2013 (could be earlier)- and officially inducted by 2015-2016. Export version needs to be sanctioned by government. You typically would not export your best equipment only inducted recently by your own force. Could the 2015 means Year 2020 Week 15?
 
Tomboy

Tomboy

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iewgnem said:
I don't think people really comprehend how insane it is for PL-15 to have a ~600 element AESA

~600 element AESA means you get all the fancy beam-forming, sidelobe supression, multi-beam and null beam fun, of course also Low Prob Intercept mode and if they want to go to town also EW jamming of target. Previously people only knew PL-15 used AESA but not how many elements, and the assumption is it's not a high number due to cost, but I guess this is China we're talking about.

Every other BVR missile from Meteor to AIM-120D uses old school pulse-dopplar radar. Europe has been working with Japan on upgrading Meteor to AESA and Americans plans on putting AESA on AIM-260. If that's their idea of state of the art then it's unlikely SPECTRA will be capable of even detecting against, nevermind resisting PL-15's AESA seeker.

I would not be surprised at all if the Rafales had zero warning up to intercept and all pilots were killed.

(yes the photos are PL-15, not HQ-9, divide PL-15 diameter by Ku band 1/2 wavelength and it matches photo)

View attachment 151937View attachment 151938
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I thought we have discussed this here and debunked this picture. This picture wasn't even taken in India or Pakistan but in China and the seeker here doesn't match what was shown from the debris especially that mounting plate which only showed 192 TRMs which pictures was also posted in this thread. This seeker is much larger and probably comes from a SAM missile.
 
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iewgnem

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Tomboy said:
I thought we have discussed this here and debunked this picture. This picture wasn't even taken in India or Pakistan but in China and the seeker here doesn't match what was shown from the debris especially that mounting plate which only showed 192 TRMs which pictures was also posted in this thread. This seeker is much larger and probably comes from a SAM missile.
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HQ-9 tip diameter is 560mm, Ku band wavelength is up to ~16mm, you'd be able to fit at least 70 Ku band radiators across the diameter of a HQ-9, clearly this is less.

Also does the second picture look like it's more than half a meter in diameter?
 
A

AndrewJ

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Sinnavuuty said:
in July 2020, the Rafale + Meteor duo became operational in India
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Do you have visual evidence that India has received Meteor AAM? Like images/videos of IAF Rafale with Meteor in drills? :rolleyes:

In a recent podcast after 7/5 combat, Guancha Trios said India ordered but hasn't received any of these AAM yet. What they have is all MICA at best.

I'm open to both. So if anyone has visuals, that's ok. If not, considering IAF Rafale payload configuration found in 7/5 air combat, I tend to believe Guancha Trios' idea.
 
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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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AndrewJ said:
Do you have visual evidence that India has received Meteor AAM? Like images/videos of IAF Rafale with Meteor in drills? :rolleyes:

In a recent podcast after 7/5 combat, Guancha Trios said India ordered but hasn't received any of these AAM yet. What they have is all MICA at best.

I'm open to both. So if anyone has visuals, that's ok. If not, considering IAF Rafale configuration found in 7/5 air combat, I tend to believe Guancha Trios' idea.
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If true that’s simply ridiculous… Egypt I understand but India should not have restrictions placed on them. They effectively cucked themselves with their arrogance.
 
Randomuser

Randomuser

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AndrewJ said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1921274054738076088

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1921210075319828947

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1921253821553975396
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Ah yes the good old both sides declare victory.

You can tell who really won by who gets more upset by this ceasefire though.

There are posters here who said PK should have done more to take the advantage and they didn't really show their muscle. Well imagine how those hardcore Jai Hinds feel about this? A lot of them are really mad the fighting has already stopped and they didn't get to teach PK a lesson while those terrorists are still running free. In their view despite India having such a huge advantage, they pussied out.
 
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