The Kashmir conflict 2025.

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
Yes, that is true. However, since the PLAAF operates a small batch of Su-35, the PLAAF is very familiar with the radar. Initially the PLAAF exercised frequently with the Su-35s, but concluded that its radar was prone to jamming by the J-10C/J-16 and found the Su-35 ineffective at operating in the heavily contested EM environment that PLAAF fighters were expected to operate in.

India would be better off funding its indigenous AESA development efforts and focusing on bringing the Uttam into production. Uttam + Astra Mk2 on MKI should prove to be a fairly capable and modern combo. Add in some networking/CEC, and India might end up with something close to a poor man's J-16.

The lesson that India should have learnt from the recent clash is that it needs to stop wasting money on foreign platforms and focus on building indigenous systems.
You seem to expect India to be able to build better stuff than Russia but is there any evidence to that? They couldn't even get INSAS working and are importing AK again. MKI need Russian support and isn't self developed like J11 also indicates that India just can't build better things themselves.
 
You seem to expect India to be able to build better stuff than Russia but is there any evidence to that? They couldn't even get INSAS working and are importing AK again. MKI need Russian support and isn't self developed like J11 also indicates that India just can't build better things themselves.
If India can get Su-57 then that would provide a huge boost to their capabilities, but I just don't see Su-35 being very effective against PAF, for reasons I've explained.

If India ever wants to become a true military power, then the only route it can choose is to build up its domestic MIC. Whether or it can do so successfully is an entirely different matter. A nation relying on imports for most of its critical weapons systems can never become a credible military power.
 
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Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
If India can get Su-57 then that would provide a huge boost to their capabilities, but I just don't see Su-35 being very effective against PAF, for reasons I've explained.

If India ever wants to become a true military power, then the only route it can choose is to build up its domestic MIC. Whether or it can do so successfully is an entirely different discussion. A nation relying on imports for most of its critical weapons systems can never become a credible military power.
They're doing domestic MIC; in fact overdoing it, as they have more fighter projects in the pipeline than anyone (4 different new aircraft simultaneously, 5th
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as a proposal from industry). Bad management.
Problems with this direction are one of the reasons why India ended up in 2019 and 2025 where it did - somewhat stuck, reliant on a imported silver pony stopgap.

Su-35 is indeed strange choice - it's in too many ways a stopgap plane for a rather specific problem. Yes, it's certainly effective otherwise, but not effective as much as to justify its procurement over existing Su-30mki fleet.
 
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They're doing domestic MIC; in fact overdoing it, as they have more fighter projects in the pipeline than anyone (4 different new aircraft simultaneously, 5th
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as a proposal from industry). Bad management.
But how many have actually left the drawing boards, and how many are just fronts for siphoning funds into private coffers?

Until India can get its corruption and nepotism under control, there is not much future for India either economically nor militarily.

Su-35 is indeed strange choice - it's in too many ways a stopgap plane for a rather specific problem. Yes, it's certainly effective otherwise, but not effective as much as to justify its procurement over existing Su-30mki fleet
Best option for India is to do the needful and commit to seeing Uttam and Astra mk2 to fruition. And putting together a lucrative enough deal for Russia to provide Su-57 with eventual domestic production.
 
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Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
But how many have actually left the drawing boards, and how many are just fronts for siphoning funds into private coffers?

Until India can get its corruption and nepotism under control, there is not much future for India either economically nor militarily.
One doesn't contradict the other. Croney capitalism is more often through preferential production of something, not open theft. Latter mostly happens with stupid/shortsighted people.
Tejas mk.1a - should've been combat capable by Kashmir, still awaiting engines(i.e. they now probably have a whole backlog of unfinished airframes). Not to blame just exports though - domestic components are in the pipeline, and even further (if ever, sorry India).
Tejas mk.2 - prototype assembly. Same troubles as mk.1a to a laughable degree (again, another unique variant of another engine that overloaded GE may struggle with, with no back up of course).
AMCA - hardware trials (early prototype assembly). Same engine with Tejas mk.2 at least.
"Only" TEDBF is now paper only, but it's so far ahead that we'll get another Indo-Pakistani crysis before it will make its first flight. I don't know how to treat HLFT-42, but apparently HAL and IAF still play with this thing, and it tries to creep into F-16/J-10 weight class.
Best option for India is to do the needful and commit to seeing Uttam and Astra mk2 to fruition. And putting together a lucrative enough deal for Russia to provide Su-57 with eventual domestic production.
First part was indeed their plan - that's why Su-30MKI met the fight mostly in vanilla state (only stopgap weapon upgrades).
Su-57 ... now may end up unavoidable for political reasons. Otherwise, before they clearly wanted to slide on Rafale as their gap aircraft.
Problem with Su-57 is it's a dark horse - as with other stealth planes, we don't know for certain which of its capabilities are in production stage. Like, they launch LACMs, but what else it can do sustained? Main operational Russian BVRAAMs(R-77-1 and R-37m) don't even fit inside. Will Russia do such work for Astra family? Is R-87/97 (or what's their name) pair in series production? Much like China with J-20, Russia doesn't exactly report weapon integration, the only current source is Ukrainian monitoring channels. Which sometimes don't spot Su-57/S-70 ops at all("missile out of blue").

Algeria isn't in open war, India/Pakistan may have another outburst this very tuesday. Rafale advantage over Su-57/F-35 is that it's a clear full package right now. There is literally everything, from micas to full set of a2g stand in and stand off armament (well tied into operational concept) to advanced targeting and recon pods. Only ARM is lacking until F5, but French were sure Spectra/Hammer pair is so good that DEAD may replace SEAD.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
One doesn't contradict the other.
Tejas mk.1a - should've been combat capable by Kashmir, still awaiting engines(i.e. they now probably have a whole backlog of unfinished airframes). Not to blame just exports though - domestic components are in the pipeline, and even further (if ever, sorry India).
Tejas mk.2 - prototype assembly. Same troubles as mk.1a to a laughable degree (again, another unique variant of another engine that overloaded GE may struggle with, with no back up of course).
AMCA - hardware trials (early prototype assembly). Same engine with Tejas mk.2 at least.
"Only" TEDBF is now paper only, but it's so far ahead that we'll get another Indo-Pakistani crysis before it will make its first flight. I don't know how to treat HLFT-42, but apparently HAL and IAF still play with this thing, and it tries to creep into F-16/J-10 weight class.

By the time TEBDF is ready Pakistan will be operating J-35…
 
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