solarz
Brigadier
Meanwhile, Syria's Assad is catching a break due to a well-cultivated relationship with Russia. Kind of sends a certain message to those states that aligned against the West.
The Civil War in Libya
- Thread starter solarz
- Start date
Meanwhile, Syria's Assad is catching a break due to a well-cultivated relationship with Russia. Kind of sends a certain message to those states that aligned against the West.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
That's why John McCain put his foot in his mouth when he said China should feel uncomfortable. He was basically endorsing leadership assassination which is against international law. It's not going to happen from the Chinese people because the fact is regardless of what he thinks about China, the lives of the Chinese people have gotten significantly better through the years. So what did he mean by how China should feel uncomfortable? Hence the foot in the mouth.
There is no denying gaddafi is very unpopular in Libya loathed by his own people. It's a miracle a batch of civilian with no military training background took only 8 months to overthrow gaddafi. From most of the video footage , you can see NTC fighter are most civilian dress and the way they handle their weapons are very amateur fighter. But the hate and hardship impose on them by gaddafi is so much that they wanted to overthrow gaddafi so much that the lack of military skill is replace by determination and sheer courageous against gaddafi professional soldier. NATO bombing did help but most of the dirty ground work are still needed to be carried out by NTC fighter. Did you look at the jubilation of Libyan when tripoli was liberated? Libya are dying to overthrow gaddafi. He is just a tyrant who deserve to die. I will say western did it correct this time. The intervene paid diviends.
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Baibar of Jalat
Junior Member
Have you played Shogun total war 1? If not, you have the option to bribe enemy units into joining you. In that game I never bribed anyone because to expensive and just easier to fight them. In Libya, Nato and arab allies had certainly the money and weaponary to do both. And they exactly did that. If rebels were on own they could not possible afford to bribe.
Seperately, Nato nations froze over 100 billion of Libyan assets and imposed fuel blockade and crude oil exports even though UN did not authorise that. So your saying that had no effect.
As you highlighted ill trained nature of rebels, you ignore what I said, Nato was its gaurdian angel. The legit gov forces could not mass and counter attack without exposing themselves to airstrikes. Hope you get my point.
Hardship? free education, healthcare and cheap availability of food. You can call him a tyrant for repressing freedom of speech and mass executions. Its a good reason why black immigrants liked him because of oppurtunities. No lack of jobs in Libya before revolt, but some governments in ME and North Africa have spoiled their citizens. Their populations want cushy government jobs and look down on say being a hotel receptionist or taxi drive. That desire for government jobs has led to graft due to people will pay big bribes for limited positions.
He had 42 years as a leader, he is to blame for allowing conditions of a revolt, but no excuse for foreign intervention.
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bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Actually we should save the tears and fake moral outrage
These people that got whacked as you so put it, did any of them not deserve it?
Thank god thwere are some around who are prepared to do the dirty work and take the flak for doing so.
If Qadaffi had of won many would have meet an untimely end and without a proper trial.
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The rebels in the West (Misrata and Jebel Nafusa) were both augmented by hundreds of fighters from the East who were trained in Benghazi. Misrata was kept alive with supplies from Benghazi. All of the fronts regularly coordinated strategy with each other. The offensive that went from Nafusa to Zawiya was directed by the NTC Defense Minister who was from the East, he flew in and coordinated with the local commanders. That offensive made use of many fighters from Benghazi. I would call that a loose command structure. The rebel forces in the different areas mixed together throughout the war, and don't reflect ideological groupings (i.e. the Eastern rebels aren't more or less Islamist than the Misrata rebels). This is why I say there are regional militia commands, but not "factions".
plawolf
Lieutenant General
There are plenty of people the west hails as 'heros' that China or Russia would not shed any tears over if they were 'whacked'. Would you be singing this tune if China or Russia started offing people they accuse of supporting terrorism with drone missiles?
And surely you have been around long enough to know that trial by the press and spin doctors is not the same as a trial in a court of law.
Read the news if you think a great many people are not suffering and meeting untimely ends now that the rebels have won. The fact that some journo-hack fool thinks they somehow deserve it is pretty disgusting in all honesty, but does not change the facts. People would suffer and die, in remarkably similar ways, no matter who won.
The only difference is who did the killing and who did the dying. NATO stepped in to make sure their favorites won. If they truly cared about civilians, they would have been bombing the rebel artillery that systematically and deliberately flattened entire districts of a civilian city. Instead, NATO probably joined in and helped them do it.
It is also amazing how you can lament people getting killed without trial here while loudly applauding it just the sentence before.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
Sometimes summary justice is the only way to deal with a persons who has established their guilt through their own actions. Often it is quite sickening to have to watch someone plead not guilty to a crime in which he clearly is eg Sadam, and then go through this whole charade when his fate has already been determined.
The American Awakali is as guilty as sin and many of his self posted hate recordings on utube calling for jihad against America , are more than incriminating.
and the procedures that had to be worked through before he met his end are entirely different to the plight of ordinary Libyans who wanted to be free of Qadaffi.
He was placed on the "target hit list"and list after a series of exhaustive investigations. etc. It wasnt as if he was unaware that he was placed on the targeted program,through contacts with family members who had tried to organise a judicial hearing to get him taken off the list. So all in all if the guy wasnt guilty of the alleged deeds, he had more than enough time to surrender himself like any normanl innocent person would most likely do.
I have no problem with the Chinese or Russians engaging in this type of activity provided the checks and balances have been carried out. Actually the Russians have been engaging in targeted killings for a long time. Its just that they are more discreet about it. eg Trotsky, and in recent times the Russian ex KGB man poisened in London a couple of yrs back. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if China actually do have a "dirty deeds" squad working away behind the scenes as well.
Hows this for a thought, The Chinese share a dislike for the Jihadists just like the Americans and like their compatriots in other occupations say manufacturing electronics, their "dirty deeds squad" want to go global so they are indulging in a bit of outsource work on behalf of the Americans. After all one really wouldn't know whats actually going on in Central Asia.
AS for the rule of law and all that stuff, well i wouldnt be quite so condeming of the Americans when the Chinese judicial system, controlled by the executive body, isn't so crash hot. In one instance The failure of which, led to the rioting in Xinjiang.
As for gaddifi , was he actually targeted or it was just a stroke of chance?
Afterthought
I cant think of anyone that the Chinese may want to target with a drone fired missile so can you enlighten me?
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