The Civil War in Libya

s002wjh · Mar 29, 2011

pugachev_diver said:
I wonder how does the US commit so much evil deeds and still make people like them.... Anyone in the right state of mind would know that US is not in it for the so called "democracy". The cloud just hasn't unfold yet. Tell the truth, I don't see any difference between this and the 8-country alliance invasion of China just prior to WWI.

for starter, the government in libya is a 40 yr + dictatorship. wheather or not US is there to protect people or not, it still is 1 dictator down and few hundreds more to go. if the pro- government force win the war, its likely they will kill thousands libya protesters. on top of that this was a civil war which coalition force decide to side with libya citizen/protesters/rebel instead a dictator, which is total different than the 8-country alliance stuff.

the US reputation went down due to iraq war and its related issues. but US do alot goods in the world, in recent japan disaster, US fleet bring thousands tons of food, water and other essential things to japanese people.

bladerunner · Mar 29, 2011

solarz said:
I think it's way too early to say that. Even if Qaddafi falls, which he might if the arms embargo is kept effective, there is nothing that says the rebels will form a stable government in Libya. In fact, there is a very real danger that it will fall into in-fighting and turn into a failed state like Somalia.

Of course, the difference is that Libya is a key oil producer, so we will definitely see some foreign intervention when/if that happens.

The point is, I think Obama, or the rest of the USA, is going to regret helping the Libyan rebels some years down the road...

It certainly points that way

Mr T · Mar 29, 2011

Finn McCool said:
Yes but that didn't happen.

But it so easily could have happened. Obama didn't dither because he thought Cameron would win the day, he dithered because either he wasn't sure what to do or he was scared of getting involved in a new military conflict without all the key players already being behind it.

I'm not saying Obama was 100% wrong, but he did lack courage to be more supportive earlier on.

mobydog · Mar 30, 2011

solarz said:
I think it's way too early to say that. Even if Qaddafi falls, which he might if the arms embargo is kept effective, there is nothing that says the rebels will form a stable government in Libya. In fact, there is a very real danger that it will fall into in-fighting and turn into a failed state like Somalia.

Of course, the difference is that Libya is a key oil producer, so we will definitely see some foreign intervention when/if that happens.

The point is, I think Obama, or the rest of the USA, is going to regret helping the Libyan rebels some years down the road...

I don't agree in the near term... because Libya will have another president for life with an American passport (Like Iraq, Afghan, Georgia...). Just Last week, the opposition appointed Khalifa Hifter to lead them. Strangely, he spent the past two decades living comfortably in suburban Virginia without sign of any kind employment. Like the shah, hmongs, batista, posada and loads other of potential puppets (aka exiles or dissidents) ready for regime changes.

In the not so long term, however, AQ will need to be eradicated, then the mess starts. In fact, if you look at the make-up of the rebel army, it's already a potential to be a failed state. Another recent leader, Abdel Fatah Younes, who had been at Gadhafi's side until just a month ago. Add the tribal rivalry .. dada.. Somalia.

solarz · Mar 30, 2011

mobydog said:
I don't agree in the near term... because Libya will have another president for life with an American passport (Like Iraq, Afghan, Georgia...). Just Last week, the opposition appointed Khalifa Hifter to lead them. Strangely, he spent the past two decades living comfortably in suburban Virginia without sign of any kind employment. Like the shah, hmongs, batista, posada and loads other of potential puppets (aka exiles or dissidents) ready for regime changes.

It's interesting that you bring up those 3 countries as examples. Neither Karzai nor whoever is the figurehead in Iraq does much to secure US interests in those countries. Hell, it's arguable whether they can secure anything at all in their countries.

As for Georgia... it looked like quite a coup for NATO... until Saakshavili's idiotic invasion of South Ossetia. Then Georgia just became one giant billboard proclaiming the return of Russia as a great power (at the expense of the US, no less!).

So yeah, I really don't think installing a US-friendly figurehead is going to do much for the West when the people of that nation is as fragmented as the Libyans are.

ABC78 · Mar 30, 2011

Hey guys here's a discussion on the Pentagon's budget and procurement. But they do briefly talk about the Libyan crisis in the employment of the no fly zone and how inadequate the Libyan air defense is.

This video was taken on 3/9/11

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

SampanViking · Mar 31, 2011

You disappoint me Gentleman

If at a simple glance of this thread, I find myself reading about the Boxer Rebellion and questions over the religious convictions of Martin Luther King, then it has clearly and seriously wandered off topic.

The subject is the Libyan Civil War and Intervention, your collective mission is take the thread back to it - and you all know the reward for failure in this organisation!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

bd popeye · Mar 31, 2011

Thanks for stepping in SamPanViking! You guys were way off topic..

If you desire to discuss the Boxer rebellion go here..

The Boxer Rebellion 1900-01

I'm going to move those post about the Boxer Rebellion..In the mean time...

bd popeye super moderator

bd popeye · Mar 31, 2011

This story below occurred three days ago..

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

From Joint Task Force Odyssey Dawn Public Affairs

USS MOUNT WHITNEY, At Sea (NNS) -- A U.S. Navy P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, U.S. Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt attack aircraft and guided-missile destroyer USS Barry (DDG-52), engaged Libyan Coast Guard vessel Vittoria and two smaller craft March 28.

The vessels were engaged after confirmed reports that Vittoria and accompanying crafts were firing indiscriminately at merchant vessels in the port of Misrata, Libya.

The P-3C fired at Vittoria with AGM-65F Maverick missiles, rendering the 12-meter patrol vessel ineffective and forcing it to be beached after multiple explosions were observed in the vicinity of the port.

Two smaller Libyan craft were fired upon by the A-10 using its 30mm GAU-8/ Avenger cannon, destroying one and forcing the other to be abandoned.

Barry provided situational awareness for the aircraft by managing the airspace and maintaining the maritime picture.

The P-3C, A-10 and Barry are currently supporting operations for Joint Task Force Odyssey Dawn.

Joint Task Force Odyssey Dawn is the U.S. Africa Command task force established to provide operational and tactical command and control of U.S. military forces supporting the international response to the unrest in Libya and enforcement of United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) 1973. UNSCR 1973 authorizes all necessary measures to protect civilians in Libya under threat of attack by Qadhafi regime forces.

AssassinsMace · Mar 31, 2011

I was just watching a news report on TV and the reporter watching the rebels firing artillery they didn't know how to use where the rounds landed back on their own side. There was a Libyan who was studying in Canada who went back to fight for the rebels and he bought himself an assault rifle he didn't know how to operate. The media is reporting as if CIA involvement is the rebels' ace in the hole. Unless the CIA plans to fight the rebels' war for them, it's not as monumental as the media is making it. What are they doing except providing intelligence and a little organization. They're going to have to do more than even giving arms to the rebels if they're in that bad of shape.

The Civil War in Libya

s002wjh

Junior Member

bladerunner

Banned Idiot

Mr T

Senior Member

mobydog

Junior Member

solarz

Brigadier

ABC78

Junior Member

SampanViking

The Capitalist

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

bd popeye

The Last Jedi

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General