While not as shamefull as the opium wars (Killed missionaries is a more decent casus belli than people wanting to abolish a dangerous poison), the Boxer rebellion and the conduct of the European/German force is something that shames me as a German.
The Boxer Rebellion 1900-01
- Thread starter Mike Blake
- Start date
armchairwarrior
New Member
the name itself is really nonsense. they weren't rebelling against the central authorities. hence they aren't rebels, they were endorse by them.
they were more like a militia vs foreign invaders.
they were more like a militia vs foreign invaders.
Re: The Civil War in Libya
This looks like the Eight Nation Alliance intervention in China circa 1900.
Western nations, intervening in other nation's affairs, to protect their ability to extract resources and protect trade monopoly, etc... etc...
China should re-double her efforts to not be embarrassed in the future in the event over a clash over Taiwan, Senkaku, or Spratly islands for example.
Naval expansion should be China's premier priority.
This looks like the Eight Nation Alliance intervention in China circa 1900.
Western nations, intervening in other nation's affairs, to protect their ability to extract resources and protect trade monopoly, etc... etc...
China should re-double her efforts to not be embarrassed in the future in the event over a clash over Taiwan, Senkaku, or Spratly islands for example.
Naval expansion should be China's premier priority.
Re: The Civil War in Libya
At the risk of getting into a very non-topic historical discussion, I think the Boxer Rebellion is a good example for the complexities of the motivations of the various parties in this Libya conflict. Western intervention in China in 1900 was justified: someone had to save the lives of the Westerners and hundreds of thousands of Chinese Christians in the Legation Quarters, Tienstin and elsewhere. But it would be foolish to say that the Eight Nations weren't out for what you might call "easy loot". The situation in Libya is similar. Coalition intervention was justified and has indeed saved many lives, but, it would be foolish to say that there is no "profit motive", both economic and political.
As for what Mr. T said, I think that Obama's initial hesitance to get involved was totally justified. After Iraq he'd be a fool to rush to get involved in another Arab nation, no matter what the circumstances.
On the military side of things, the rebel advance has stalled in the open desert somewhere east of Bin Jawad. I'd like to see the rebels send some of their columns of technicals into the desert and set up ambushes along the coast road, behind where the ostensible government front line is. That would make maximum use of their mobility, which is their greatest asset. They might even be able to catch some government artillery unawares.
At the risk of getting into a very non-topic historical discussion, I think the Boxer Rebellion is a good example for the complexities of the motivations of the various parties in this Libya conflict. Western intervention in China in 1900 was justified: someone had to save the lives of the Westerners and hundreds of thousands of Chinese Christians in the Legation Quarters, Tienstin and elsewhere. But it would be foolish to say that the Eight Nations weren't out for what you might call "easy loot". The situation in Libya is similar. Coalition intervention was justified and has indeed saved many lives, but, it would be foolish to say that there is no "profit motive", both economic and political.
As for what Mr. T said, I think that Obama's initial hesitance to get involved was totally justified. After Iraq he'd be a fool to rush to get involved in another Arab nation, no matter what the circumstances.
On the military side of things, the rebel advance has stalled in the open desert somewhere east of Bin Jawad. I'd like to see the rebels send some of their columns of technicals into the desert and set up ambushes along the coast road, behind where the ostensible government front line is. That would make maximum use of their mobility, which is their greatest asset. They might even be able to catch some government artillery unawares.
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Re: The Civil War in Libya
Well, what will be really interesting is what the intervening powers do when rebels move into pro-Gaddaffi territory and either 1) encounter resistance from the local population, or 2) commit atrocities against the local population.
Do pro-Gaddaffi civilians count as civilians even if they become armed? Armed rebels really aren't civilians either. Even the blind can see that the whole intervention is about taking sides in a civil war and laying the groundwork for profits, not about protecting any civilians or human rights.
I am not going to get into a discussion about the Boxer Rebellion and the 8 Nation intervention in China except to say that the Western legations and Chinese converts to foreign organized religions (therefore to an extent pledging allegiance to foreign political entities) can definitely and rightly be considered invaders and collaborators.
Well, what will be really interesting is what the intervening powers do when rebels move into pro-Gaddaffi territory and either 1) encounter resistance from the local population, or 2) commit atrocities against the local population.
Do pro-Gaddaffi civilians count as civilians even if they become armed? Armed rebels really aren't civilians either. Even the blind can see that the whole intervention is about taking sides in a civil war and laying the groundwork for profits, not about protecting any civilians or human rights.
I am not going to get into a discussion about the Boxer Rebellion and the 8 Nation intervention in China except to say that the Western legations and Chinese converts to foreign organized religions (therefore to an extent pledging allegiance to foreign political entities) can definitely and rightly be considered invaders and collaborators.
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AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Re: The Civil War in Libya
Well the "Eight Nations" would be Gadaffi trying hold on to power by trying to kill off the Boxer Rebellion against their oppressive undemocratic rule. I'm sure Gaddafi also believes he's doing what he thinks is best for those he rules over. Just shows you the act isn't the crime. It all about who commits it and who's the victim.
Well the "Eight Nations" would be Gadaffi trying hold on to power by trying to kill off the Boxer Rebellion against their oppressive undemocratic rule. I'm sure Gaddafi also believes he's doing what he thinks is best for those he rules over. Just shows you the act isn't the crime. It all about who commits it and who's the victim.
solarz
Brigadier
Re: The Civil War in Libya
You know, there's a very simple, non-bloodshed alternative to military intervention in the face of the Boxer Rebellion: get your citizens out of China!
But of course, we all know that wouldn't happen, simply because they were too invested in the colonization of Qing. So, please, spare us all the "justified on humanitarian grounds" BS.
You know, there's a very simple, non-bloodshed alternative to military intervention in the face of the Boxer Rebellion: get your citizens out of China!
But of course, we all know that wouldn't happen, simply because they were too invested in the colonization of Qing. So, please, spare us all the "justified on humanitarian grounds" BS.
Asymptote
Banned Idiot
Re: The Civil War in Libya
Exactly, it is stupid to even suggest it was justified for a military intervention in face of Boxer Rebellion.
Its pure greed, colonialism. The 8 nations were just looking for an excuse to invade. That's all.
Exactly, it is stupid to even suggest it was justified for a military intervention in face of Boxer Rebellion.
Its pure greed, colonialism. The 8 nations were just looking for an excuse to invade. That's all.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
solarz
Brigadier
Re: The Civil War in Libya
That would be an internal matter for the Qing government themselves to handle. Besides, considering the fact that western powers just helped put down a massive some 40 years ago, "helping Chinese Christians" is a ridiculously laughable pretext.
Back on topic:
The US is considering arming a group that may very well have direct ties to al-Qaeda. It would be supremely ironic if those weapons then find their way into Afghanistan or Iraq.
That would be an internal matter for the Qing government themselves to handle. Besides, considering the fact that western powers just helped put down a massive some 40 years ago, "helping Chinese Christians" is a ridiculously laughable pretext.
Back on topic:
The US is considering arming a group that may very well have direct ties to al-Qaeda. It would be supremely ironic if those weapons then find their way into Afghanistan or Iraq.
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