Terror Attack in Paris, 13 November 2015

asif iqbal said:

What's the difference ?

Isis at best are 10,000 men?? Maybe more

That's like 0.0001% of overall muslim population out of 1.6 billion

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I think your reasoning on the probable ratio is misleading because; (i) the impact of the terrorist act is disproportionate (Paris attack and 9/11); (ii) it does not include the likes of Boko Haram, Al Qaeda. et al that share similar ideologies; (iii) it is just the tip of the ice berg supported by an even larger pool of sympathisers and (iv) such a perverse ideology is growing (not diminishing) and presents an existential threat to all

asif iqbal said:

No where does it preach violance in Quran infact it says no where does it say anything against other religions especially respect those people of the book Christians and Jews

Even you are not allowed to cut down trees ones bearing fruit if you take enemy positions in war in according to real proper Islam

You are strictly forbidden to damage irrigation systems too

So Condem what ? Actions of the few ? There's nothing to talk against

If these guys decided on their own version of Islam due to circumstance or whatever we need to change that circumstance

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It is precisely the lack of push back from Muslim religious leaders against such radicalised ideology that has allowed oxygen into the system and gained traction with the likes of ISIL. I do understand the religion because I have studied it. I would limit my comments to say that the reluctance to call out such perverse ideology is intrinsically connected to the religion itself. Forum rules would not allow me to say further. I am more than happy to engage in a private conversation.

asif iqbal said:

The madrasahs schools and even institutions your talking about are funded and supported by mainly one country, that is Saudi Arabia

It's like capturing all the people who do drugs and say you are fighting drug trafficking !? You have to go after the drug dealer to tackle the issue not the addicted people

Saudi funds the money to spread Wahabbi ideology which directly has been linked to terrorism, 9/11 yet no one has raised a single question about that funding

So no, no mosques should be questioned no Muslims should condemn this act, if you want to tackle it tackle the source, CIA and MI5 had a hand in setting up these schools in Northern Pakistan during the 1980s so they can be the first to apologise

This all funding of madrasahs started in 1980s to fighting the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, Soviet Union is gone as are the Mujahideen but the second generation Mujahideen or even 3rd generation are still behind funded

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Saudi Arabia is the de facto head of the Sunni faith. As leader and with the resources, it is quite natural that it funds the madrasahs because they are simply religious schools. It is no different from the many Christian religious schools in the US and here in Australia. Blaming the existence of such schools is frankly avoiding responsibility and not confronting the problem. Schools don't create problems. It is what is taught within it that can do good or evil. So please stop blaming the people for setting up the schools. Deal with the teachings in these schools. The problem I see it is always some one else fault.

Brumby said:

Schools don't create problems. It is what is taught within it that can do good or evil. So please stop blaming the people for setting up the schools. Deal with the teachings in these schools. The problem I see it is always some one else fault.

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Just my thought, I don't see what is the big difference between school and what it teaches. Aren't they pretty much the same? They can not really be seperated, can they? The school is not just some concrete blocks with windows. The school is mainly the teachers, curriculum therefor what it taught. The funder pay the bill, therefor choose who to teach and what to teach.

So, I see asif and you actually agree to each other on this point.

Note, I believe the specific school that you two are talking about is not ordinary one, but the one funded by foreign sponsors. Am I right?

taxiya said:

Just my thought, I don't see what is the big difference between school and what it teaches. Aren't they pretty much the same? They can not really be seperated, can they? The school is not just some concrete blocks with windows. The school is mainly the teachers, curriculum therefor what it taught. The funder pay the bill, therefor choose who to teach and what to teach.

So, I see asif and you actually agree to each other on this point.

Note, I believe the specific school that you two are talking about is not ordinary one, but the one funded by foreign sponsors. Am I right?

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You are right provided the basic premise in your statement is established and in my view is the heart of the whole issue I was attempting to point out. The issue is whether the teachings in those religious schools represent Islam and if not how can it get so radicalised? Are we in denial or are we being ignorant?

janjak desalin said:

double posting, Jeff?
that's kind'a cheesy!

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I felt the news was of enough import to post to the threads where it has relevance.

Many posters on SD frequent certain threads and do not see posts on others.

Anyhow...take it however you wish.

In effect France has bypassed the US with an alliance with Russia does that not mean they realize that Assad will stay in power in other words if you can't beat em join em also this could allow for the introduction of ground forces a la the foreign legion if they wanted to after all that allows the US to focus on the real enemy of global warming

Brumby said:

Sad to say, your POTUS is more interested in protecting his legacy than doing what is right. He has no interest in seriously engaging ISIL beyond what is necessary for the optics. If I were to sum up his ISIL policy it would be "minimalist containment and hope for the best". It is evident that all the ISIL targeted programs initiated to-date by this administration is bare minimum and do not reflect serious commitment to get the job done.


Whilst the number of sorties are the lowest recorded comparatively, I also understand 75 % of the sorties return to base without dropping the ordinance. The problems are lack of intelligence on the ground and stringent ROE's. This administration don't like having to deal with collaterals and the PR associated with it. Targets are time sensitive and when you have to jump through so many hoops, you don't get results.

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I cant help but agree with you kindof reminds me of Neviile Chamberlin only much much worse this POTUS will not act even when the US is attacked which I am afraid will happen before too long

taxiya said:

France has requested and received military assistance from all EU members according to article 42.7 of the EU’s Lisbon Treaty.

I think that makes NATO assistance redundant as NATO is actually an obstacle for France to act in Syria because of the objection from Russia and possibly China.

Also, since France and Russia has reached agreement, I believe France can reach some kind of understanding with Syria in terms of airspace and even airbase in Syria, that would lay down a concrete legal fundation for Frence to operate in Syria. I can see that a UN mandate being possible if France ask for it, but not needed as Syrian invitation or authorization is enough.

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the US will veto any UN mandate due to differences with Russia and France

Interesting news

Assad is Not the Enemy of France, ISIL is - Hollande

President Francois Holland said that the Islamic State is his country's biggest enemy, not Syrian president Bashar Assad.

Iran's Rouhani tells Hollande need 'all our might' to fight Islamic State


PARIS (Reuters) - It is of vital importance to fight Islamic State with "all our might", Iranian President Hassan Rouhani told French President Francois Hollande on Tuesday, a day after Paris called for a grand coalition to destroy the group.

"President Rouhani ... insisted on the vital importance of the fight against Daesch (Islamic State) and terrorism with all our might," a French presidential source said after a call between the two presidents.

The (two men) insisted on the importance of the Vienna peace talks to resolve the conflict in Syria, the source said.

Rouhani offers to share intelligence with France in terror fight

TEHRAN - It is of vital importance to fight Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) with “all our might”, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani told French President Francois Hollande on Tuesday over the telephone, a day after Paris called for a grand coalition to destroy the group.

“We are ready to offer cooperation in security and intelligence to France in the fight against terrorism,” Rouhani told Hollande.


“During a telephonic conversation with President Hollande, we both emphasized the need to unite the world in the fight against violence and extremism,” a Twitter account associated with Rouhani said.