Taiwan Military News Thread

[Pointblank]

Re: Taiwan F5F crashed

"TAIPEI (Reuters) - An ageing Taiwan fighter jet crashed on Friday during preparation for an exercise aimed at countering an attack by China, killing two Taiwanese pilots and two visiting Singaporean soldiers on the ground, officials said.

Nine Singaporean servicemen were injured, two seriously, when the two-seater F-5F jet crashed into a storeroom in a military base, Singapore's Ministry of Defense said in a statement.

"Two SAF (Singapore Armed Forces) servicemen are injured and are being treated in hospital. Seven others have minor injuries. Two bodies have been found and their identities are being verified," the ministry said.

The base was located in Hukou, Hsinchu County, which is about 50 km (30 miles) south of the capital Taipei.

Due to a lack of adequate space on the small island state for large-scale exercises, Singaporean troops have been coming to train in Taiwan as part of a cooperative agreement -- code-named Operation Starlight -- since 1975.

No reason for the crash had yet been determined, although local media highlighted the age of the F-5F fleet, which has been in service since the 1970s, as a possible factor.

Defense Minister Lee Jye told reporters that the jet, which crashed while attempting to pull out of a low-level attack run, could still be used, but the military was planning to replace them.

"Despite being old, the F-5Fs can still be used if they adequately meet standards. In the future we are planning to replace them with F-16C/D fighters," said Lee.

Taiwan has requested around 60 F-16C/D fighters from the United States, but long delays by parliament in passing a budget for a prior arms package has strained ties and Washington has declined to approve the sale.

The Ministry of Defense has grounded all F-5F fighters, pending the outcome of an investigation into the accident.

The crash comes as Taiwan's military prepares to hold the island's annual Han Kuang live fire drills aimed at repelling an attack from China next week.

Taiwan's Lee said the exercise would be unaffected by the accident.

China claims Taiwan as part of its own territory and has threatened war if the island was ever to declare formal independence.

The Singaporean soldiers were not taking part in the exercises, the Taiwan Defense ministry said." (Quote from Yahoo News)



The F5F fighter aircraft is suppose to be a great piece of work but is too old and badly needed an overhaul. I am guessing this had not been done before the plane crashed.

Any thoughts over this accident?

Too early to say anything. Could be pilot error, and nothing to do with the aircraft.

 

[The_Zergling]

Re: Taiwan F5F crashed

寡婦機為何還要飛？ 立委促李傑下台
【聯合報／記者楊濡嘉、陳志平／台北報導】

2007.05.12 03:32 am

空軍F-五F戰機昨天執行漢光演習預演時墜毀，朝野立委都直指國防部長李傑難辭其咎，要他下台。

民進黨立委林進興、薛凌、湯火聖，要求國防部立即停止漢光演習。國民黨立委林郁方質疑此款戰機出事明顯偏高，在軍中早有「寡婦機」之稱，執政黨只顧買新機，排擠老舊戰機維修費用，武器人員配置失衡。

李傑說國軍死了兩個人，新加坡軍人死得比國軍多，國民黨立委丁守中、羅明才都痛批李傑發言不當。立委吳育昇質疑李傑的說法有如當年蔣仲苓「哪裡不死人」的翻版，顯示軍中人權未隨時代進步，李傑應慎重考慮去留，並向死者鞠躬道歉。

林進興指出，昨天失事的F-五F戰機早已被歸類為「國軍老爺機、車、艦」之一，與它同型戰機在台服役已超過卅六年，由於機齡老舊，到目前為止造成卅一次意外、至少造成卅六名飛官喪生，平均每年有一位飛官為它賠掉性命。

林郁方說，老舊的戰機該淘汰就要淘汰，即便堪用也應加強維修，但民進黨執政後，從軍武政策到預算分配都嚴重失衡，李傑身為國防部長卻無法本於專業，抗拒民進黨的壓力，才會造成空軍戰力耗損。民進黨立委湯火聖罵藍營一再阻擋總預算案與國防預算案，才無法汰換老舊裝備。

In a nutshell: Some legislators demand Defense Minister Lee Jye's resignation. Rumsfeld wouldn't last a week in Taiwan.

Here's a link to some very good analysis. (in English) I'm quite impressed by this guy's work, actually. Besides his posts about the crash, his blog is quite fascinating especially if you've never been to Taiwan.

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I also want to give my personal take on the incident. I saw the jet in its final moments. The pilots had time to eject. They chose not to. Instead, they flew their aircraft into the ground on the base, thus sparing countless hundreds of lives in the crowded Hukou area that would have been lost in the crash and subsequent explosion.

When I look at the photos of 5371, I see 2 heroes in the cockpit....

 

[bd popeye]

Taiwan drill simulates Chinese aircraft carrier attack

Apparently the ROC feels threatened by a future PLAN CV. And as it has been for many years is training to repel any attack ....

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Taipei- Taiwan on Monday launched a military drill simulating invasion from China involving China's first aircraft carrier. The annual drill, coded Hankuang 23, is meant to simulate a missile attack from China, followed by attack from a Chinese aircraft carrier and sabotage by Chinese spies and pro-China elements in Taiwan, the China Times said.

Taiwan would launch a counter-attack by firing missiles from its warships and F-16 warplanes at the Chinese aircraft carrier.

China is expected to finish building its first aircraft carrier within five years. By then, the 120-kilometre Taiwan Strait would no longer protect Taiwan from China because the Chinese aircraft carrier could sail to Taiwan's east coast, to allow China to attack Taiwan from both sides.

Taiwan has only four submarines - two US subs from World War II and two Dutch subs imported in the 1980s.

The China Times said that since the US is concerned about China developing aircraft carrier, it has sent a military delegation - led by Dennis Blair, former commander-in-chief of the US Pacific Command - to monitor Hankuang 23.

The US, Taiwan's closet anti-Communist ally, switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979, but signed the Taiwan Relations Act pledging to continue to maintain unofficial ties with Taiwan and to supply Taiwan with defensive arms.

Many Taiwanese expect the US to help defend Taiwan if the island is attacked by China, but China has warned that Taiwan is part of China and the US must not to meddle in internal Chinese affairs.

Copyright © 2007 Respective Author

 

[adeptitus]

IMO the F-5 pilot was probably trying to do an emergency landing back at the base, instead of ditching the aircraft over residential area. Unfortunately he didn't make it.

Hsinchu is the second most expensive city to live in after Taipei. I think the ROC military probably built the military base there decades ago when the area was still rural, and the urban development just swarmed the area over time.

I was in Taiwan last month and took the high-speed train up and down. Once you're out of the city area there are many rural areas with nothing but flat farms. I think the military probably should consider relocating some facilities to less-populated areas, but the cost of moving/building a base is quite high.

 

[rhino123]

IMO the F-5 pilot was probably trying to do an emergency landing back at the base, instead of ditching the aircraft over residential area. Unfortunately he didn't make it.

Hsinchu is the second most expensive city to live in after Taipei. I think the ROC military probably built the military base there decades ago when the area was still rural, and the urban development just swarmed the area over time.

I was in Taiwan last month and took the high-speed train up and down. Once you're out of the city area there are many rural areas with nothing but flat farms. I think the military probably should consider relocating some facilities to less-populated areas, but the cost of moving/building a base is quite high.

No, I respectfully disagreed with you. You see the plane crashed in the camp that are operated by the Singaporeans. This camp as you can see from the pictures shown by our friend The_Zergling is an armour camp so there really is no place for an aircraft.

 

[The_Zergling]

No, I respectfully disagreed with you. You see the plane crashed in the camp that are operated by the Singaporeans. This camp as you can see from the pictures shown by our friend The_Zergling is an armour camp so there really is no place for an aircraft.

Opinions I've seen around the Taiwan blogs tend to be that they avoided ejecting over the city to avoid civilian deaths... so they chose to crash at the base (and perhaps did not have enough time to eject after aiming at it), which unfortunately still resulted in death, but arguably less so than the alternative.

 

[adeptitus]

No, I respectfully disagreed with you. You see the plane crashed in the camp that are operated by the Singaporeans. This camp as you can see from the pictures shown by our friend The_Zergling is an armour camp so there really is no place for an aircraft.

You're correct that the army base doesn't contain a runway... though I still think the Pilot was aiming for the large empty live life area attached to the base:

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Unfortunately he didn't make it.

 

[The_Zergling]

Some photos from a recent ROCAF takeoff/landing exercise near Huatan, May 15. Worthy of notice is the fact that several aircraft took off with missiles and landed without them, which seems to be unnecessarily complicating the exercise, if it's just to see the capabilities of the highways.

Photos were found here:

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, you can find the entire set. I'm just posting my favorites...

Note that all the aircraft are two-seaters.

An event for the family.

Armed with bombs before takeoff.

I encourage you guys to visit the website itself, there is certainly a fair amount of good material on it regarding the ROCAF.

 

[Clouded Leopard]

beautiful.


Now, I know that Taiwan has two large underground airbases at Hualien (Jiashan) and Taitung (Chihhang.) These 2 bases were completed in the 1990s and can hold up to 250 fighter jets.


But, the London Times reported in 2001 that Taiwan was building even more underground air bases. I have not heard since, though. Anyone have more information?

 

[Clouded Leopard]

66 F-16 C/D $4 billion ($484 million frozen in 2007 until US authorises sale)

So wait, if this current budget passes (that is currently being deadlocked over the CEC bill,) then the sixty-six F-16C/Ds are included as well and Taiwan would effectively have begun to purchase the F-16s? (I'm guessing that the USA will approve the sale of F-16s when Taiwan approves this budget, 'cause it has money for Orions, Patriot upgrades, and the sub study.)