Taiwan Military News Thread

[Clouded Leopard]

With regards to submarines & other hardware for Taiwan, could Japan transfer some of her own/build them? I don't see any other country besides the US that could/would do it, but it could take longer since the USN no longer operates SSK types, and the yards hadn't build one in decades.

It would be great if they would, but the Japanese don't seem to have the political desire to do so. They're not even willing to sell Taiwan submarines outright.

 

[The_Zergling]

It would be great if they would, but the Japanese don't seem to have the political desire to do so. They're not even willing to sell Taiwan submarines outright.

For sure. I've always been wondering why so many people are willing to readily presume that Japan would get itself mixed up in a nasty Taiwan strait conflict, especially given its history post-WWII.

Granted recently (Abe and co.) there's been a right-wing backlash over more liberal policies and attitudes in the 90s, but I just can't see Japan getting itself worked up over this, especially since China has nukes...

 

[Deleted member 675]

I just can't see Japan getting itself worked up over this, especially since China has nukes...

The fact China has nukes is pretty irrelevant as to whether Japan would get involved or not. If it believed it was important to do so, it would be so serious that the issue of China's WMD arsenal wouldn't matter.

Currently it isn't allowed to export weapons to anyone, so Taiwan is automatically off the books.

So wait, if this current budget passes (that is currently being deadlocked over the CEC bill,) then the sixty-six F-16C/Ds are included as well and Taiwan would effectively have begun to purchase the F-16s? (I'm guessing that the USA will approve the sale of F-16s when Taiwan approves this budget, 'cause it has money for Orions, Patriot upgrades, and the sub study.)

Not necessarily. First the US needs to approve the sale. Then there's the issue of whether the funds are still frozen or expired. The legislative put a condition on them that the US had to approve the sale within 5 months or so. I can't remember whether that was from the date of the committee meeting or from the date of the budget being passed.

Doubtless we shall see over the coming weeks.

 

[Clouded Leopard]

The legislative put a condition on them that the US had to approve the sale within 5 months or so. I can't remember whether that was from the date of the committee meeting or from the date of the budget being passed.

Well, the committee probably didn't anticipate this 6-month delay deadlock over the budget. If they're decent people, they would allow the "5-month period" to be stretched to maybe the end of the next legislative session in December 2007 or January 2008.

 

[Deleted member 675]

Well, the committee probably didn't anticipate this 6-month delay deadlock over the budget. If they're decent people, they would allow the "5-month period" to be stretched to maybe the end of the next legislative session in December 2007 or January 2008.

Well if they specifically said X months from date Y and they legally can't do anything about it, then it wouldn't make a difference. But if the US approves the sale then what would have been the second installment can still be included in the 2008 budget as the first one.

Hopefully the committee will be able to unlock the funds so things can move on.

 

[Schumacher]

For sure. I've always been wondering why so many people are willing to readily presume that Japan would get itself mixed up in a nasty Taiwan strait conflict, especially given its history post-WWII.

Granted recently (Abe and co.) there's been a right-wing backlash over more liberal policies and attitudes in the 90s, but I just can't see Japan getting itself worked up over this, especially since China has nukes...

Interesting to note that Taiwan was not brought up in this year's meeting of US-Japan foreign & defence ministers. First time this has happened in recent years. This may be the first tangible result of Abe's attempt to improve ties with China after the Koizumi era.

 

[Clouded Leopard]

12 P-3C Orions $1.4 billion, spread out over 7 years ($184 million in 2007 - first year)
PAC-2 upgrades to PAC-3 standard no data on total cost ($105 million in 2007 - first year)
SSK R&D $6 million (to keep project going in 2007 - no funds for construction yet)
66 F-16 C/D $4 billion ($484 million frozen in 2007 until US authorises sale)

Okay, so let's take out the F-16s because their status is anyone's guess, what with that May deadline for the US to release prices and whatnot.


And we have to add in the $20 million airstrip to be built on Itu Aba island, and the 100 supplemental SM-2MR missiles for the Kidd DDGs.

(By the way, I thought the Orions were $1.6 billion, not $1.4 billion. I'm probably wrong.)




So, if the KMT allows the annual budget to pass, here we have:

12 P-3C Orions $1.4 billion or $1.6 billion
PAC-2+ upgrade to PAC-3 something like $105-110 million total
Submarine feasibility study $6-7 million
100 SM-2MR missiles don't know the cost
Itu Aba island airstrip $20 million


On top of that, defense spending is also increased to 2.85% up from the 2.3% it is right now.

 

[Deleted member 675]

Well I think that's what it is, though remember the budget doesn't have the full price tag for the Orions, just the first installment. Also I think there's some money in there for the AIM-120 and Maverick purchase.

Maybe there'll be some more details released when the budget is actually passed.

 

[Clouded Leopard]

I think AIM-120 and Maverick might be next year, but I could be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 675]

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On the confidential budget section, opposition Kuomintang Legislator Lin Yu-fang said an outlay of NT$200 million was approved to finance a feasibility study on Taiwan's efforts to purchase diesel-electric submarines from the United States while the remaining NT$4.3 billion for the submarine deal was deleted.

The funding for a submarine-hunting P3-C aircraft procurement plan, totaling more than NT$6.1 billion, was approved, but an outlay of NT$11.3 billion for procuring Patriot PAC-3 anti-missile batteries was killed, Lin said, adding that a NT$3.5 billion fund for upgrading the performance of Patriot PAC-2 anti-missile batteries was passed.

Meanwhile, the legislature froze one-third of the NT$16 billion outlay for an F-16 C/D jet fighter purchase plan, Lin said, adding that the freeze will be lifted if the Ministry of National Defense manages to obtain U.S. consent to the deal by the end of October.

I should also point out that there was money for more SM-2 missiles (so that the Kidds will be able to carry a full-load) and the AIM-120/AGM-65 purchase.