Taiwan Military News Thread

[Deleted member 675]

Just wondering, what is the purpose of building up such a large military force in taiwan.

Self-defence against possible Chinese military activity directed towards Taiwan.

it is UNLIKELY that those chinese will invade.....

But if China did invade, Taiwan would have no chance without a reasonably large military. A military is like an insurance policy - the more you cut corners, the worse off you will be if things go wrong.

I would say it is also unlikely China will be invaded by anyone, yet it maintains a large military force and is increasing its military budget faster than even the economy is growing.

Also another question, is Japan allowed to create herself a standing army

It has a "standing army". It's just that it's justified as a "defence force" to get around the throw-backs to the American-imposed constitution.

 

[Unit88]

Well, in response to one of your comments, I think the Chinese learned their mistakes during world war II that not maintaining a strong military force, countries like Japan will invade, or Mongolians during Gengiskan's era. Also, I dont understand why the chinese are given such close invistagation on their military expenses when there are other countries such as the United States who have some the most advanced fighters and technology in the world and they go unchecked. From another post, somebody stated that the united states has about 500 minutemen II missiles in operation and nobody is complaining. Just my two cents on the current situation.

 

[flyzies]

Well, in response to one of your comments, I think the Chinese learned their mistakes during world war II that not maintaining a strong military force, countries like Japan will invade, or Mongolians during Gengiskan's era. Also, I dont understand why the chinese are given such close invistagation on their military expenses when there are other countries such as the United States who have some the most advanced fighters and technology in the world and they go unchecked. From another post, somebody stated that the united states has about 500 minutemen II missiles in operation and nobody is complaining. Just my two cents on the current situation.

The response to that, in short, would be because the US sees China as a future possible threat to its interests. So therefore they beat up the "fear factor" involved with the Chinese military...hence the close investigations.

 

[Deleted member 675]

not maintaining a strong military force, countries like Japan will invade, or Mongolians during Gengiskan's era

So China is now going to be paranoid for the rest of eternity and spend money on a huge army because of the Mongolian invasions? In that case every country that has ever been attacked should have a huge military - let's have a global arms race!

Also, I dont understand why the chinese are given such close invistagation on their military expenses

Because they're not transparent. If they were transparent, people would know what it's spending. You can't assess a military threat if you don't know what someone spends.

somebody stated that the united states has about 500 minutemen II missiles in operation and nobody is complaining

Actually people are complaining, but in a different way. They complain because the US (along with Russia) has so many nuclear weapons - it's not because the US won't disclose all of its military spending.

 

[Clouded Leopard]

Just wondering, what is the purpose of building up such a large military force in taiwan. I know that the media around the world are talking about eh crisis along the taiwan strait is getting worse now but, it is UNLIKELY that those chinese will invade

It's unlikely that a fire will break out in our workplace office, but we always stock fire extinguishers just in case don't we?


Furthermore, the lack of a Taiwanese military would make it more likely that China would invade. A military's real purpose is not to fight. A military's real purpose is to serve as deterrence to prevent war. When there is no war, a military is doing its job best.

the chinese never invaded expressed "military barbarism (spelling is wrong i think ) against neighboring nations.

Yes, but China considers Taiwan to be "part of its territory," not a "neighboring nation." China always claims Taiwan and won't renounce it. Taiwan's not Japan or Korea. China makes no promises not to invade or attack Taiwan.

 

[Deleted member 675]

Unit88, your questions have been answered. Now if you have more questions or are not satisfied with the responses you've got, I suggest you contribute to another thread (or start your own). This is a news thread, not general discussion topic on whether Taiwan should have armed forces, etc. The moderators won't want more deviation from the thread's purpose.

Thanks.

 

[The_Zergling]

The 584th Armor Brigade has been transferred from Kinmen to Linkow, probably to defend Taipei. I think we talked about the strategical implications about this a few months ago, and this is probably just the policy being carried out.

2007/07/18 19:30
記者王宗銘／台北報導

陸軍裝甲五八四旅在今年4月1日移編六軍團後，18日正式在新竹湖口基地舉行編成點驗典禮，加入北部第六軍團的作戰序列。五八四旅駐防在林口台地，是近年來北部所部署的第二個裝甲旅，在軍方規劃中，這是為了因應中國人民解放軍戰力的增強，持續加強首都防禦的打擊戰力。

陸軍裝甲五八四旅原為部署在金門的五八四裝甲旅，原有兵力不到3000人，戰車約80輛，其中大部分為老舊的M41戰車，依軍方計畫，裝甲五八四旅正式成軍後，將配發裝步旅戰車，並充實編制員額，金防部方面，則將保留一個戰車營作為防衛打擊力量。至於原本駐防在林口的陸戰旅將遷到淡水後備動員管理學校現址。

裝甲五八四旅編成點驗典禮今天上午在新竹湖口基地舉行，軍聞社報導指出，陸軍司令趙世璋上將首先宣讀五八四旅編成命令，隨後授予部隊長邵定謙少將隊旗、印信及校閱部隊人員、裝備。趙世璋強調，「裝備是戰力的泉源」，部隊要有妥善裝備，才能發揮戰力，精實的訓練若沒有裝備妥善的支撐，在戰場上是難以發揮效能殲滅敵人，所以官兵必須建立「保養也是訓練」、「裝備保養與戰備訓練同等重要」，尤其是戰車部隊，務須致力達到「百分之百裝備妥善與人員滿編」的要求，嚴格落實裝備保養。

媒體日前報導指出，在今年漢光22號兵棋推演中，軍方發現北部裝甲部隊不足，中、南部軍團都把裝甲旅北調，造成中南部防務空虛，無力阻擋解放軍的登陸船團登岸，因此加強首都裝甲戰力成為當務之急。而且配合北基桃竹都會城鎮的作戰型態，陸軍未來將優先配備即將量產的自製雲豹八輪甲車，以及採購攻擊直升機增強火力，另外還採購少量世界先進戰車做重點部署。

裝甲五八四旅原為陸軍第二一九師，民國37年12月成立於江西上饒，38年移防舟山，改稱六十七師，同年11月因「登步大捷」，榮獲「登步部隊」稱號；於41年5月改編為八十四師、63年5月移駐馬祖、65年8月移駐桃園變更番號為二八四師，並於72年3月移防金門戍守南雄，配合「精實案」部隊整編，至88年4月1日改番號為陸軍裝甲第五八四旅，復依令於今年4月1日移編六軍團，是個具有光榮傳統與歷史的部隊。

Overall it seems that a more defensive doctrine is indeed being adopted. Starting November 1st, the Kinmen Artillery Command will be reduced in size - overall roughly 5000-7000 troops will be stationed on the island. Officially it's to help create a more peaceful cross-strait environment.

Quite understandably, officials working at Kinmen aren't exactly optimistic about prospects in an invasion.

金門裁軍 僅7千兵力
無「旅」編制 扁核定11月執行

【王烱華╱台北報導】為營造兩岸和平氣氛，陳水扁總統已核定金門防衛指揮部大裁軍。國防部自今年十一月一日起，裁降金防部砲兵指揮部、陸軍金東第一一九旅、金西第一二七旅、聯勤金門支指部共四個單位編制。由於十一月以後，金門已無旅級編制，只有守備區，以每個守備區二至三個營計算，金門兵力應只有五千到七千人。

「有些崗哨無兵站」
調降編制後，金防部砲指部改編為金防部砲兵群，指揮官由少將降為上校；陸軍金東第一一九旅、金西第一二七旅降編為金東守備隊；金西守備隊，指揮官由少將旅長降編為上校指揮官；聯勤金門支指部指揮官由少將降編為上校。
金防部官員透露，金門受到裁軍與陳水扁宣布役期減短二個月的退伍潮影響，現在有些據點、崗哨都面臨無兵可站的窘境。這位官員形容，現在出現「小土狗站哨，連長擔任安全士官」現象。
國防部官員表示，金防部裁軍仍保留烈嶼守備區的少將指揮官編階，主管小金門及大、二膽外離島防區防務，但金防部則由原來「軍團級」單位降編為「軍級」單位，與馬祖、澎湖、花東同一位階。官員強調，雖然防區防務兵力大幅減少，但包括守備部隊、砲兵群、裝甲營、兩棲特戰營及反制飛彈部隊等火力與編制防衛下，預估比維持四個旅的兵力，其戰力更提高為一點五倍。

若遭攻擊官員悲觀
不過，金防部內一名官員悲觀表示，未來金門只要面臨中國解放軍攻擊，因為台灣不會增援金門及馬祖，「守軍只有戰死及投降兩條路」、「我只能奉勸家長不要讓役男到金馬服役。」

 

[Deleted member 675]

I think we talked about the strategical implications about this a few months ago, and this is probably just the policy being carried out.

Correct.

Overall it seems that a more defensive doctrine is indeed being adopted.

Quite understandably, officials working at Kinmen aren't exactly optimistic about prospects in an invasion.

It's a completely realistic position. The outlying islands can't be defended forever in the face of a conserted attack - it would be a waste of resources. If a war did start, they would either be evacuated before the Chinese could arrive, or the troops there would fight a delaying action to bleed the attacking forces as much as possible.

At the end of the day, it wouldn't matter two hoots if the tiny island was lost to China. In many respects it would be a wild goose chase for the PLA, unless missile batteries had been placed there.

 

[Clouded Leopard]

Kinmen and Matsu serve as great barriers to trip up any major Chinese action, though. Their artillery can barrage the mainland itself (and I believe that there are also MLRS with 30-mile range,) and they are strategically situated as the "gate sentries" to Taiwan. They can also fire from behind on any PLAN ship that goes past them.


IMO, Kinmen and Matsu carry great strategic value, and Taiwan is erring by placing less emphasis on them, not more.

 

[yongke]

I see that personal opinions are starting to ooze into this thread. Hopefully, I can be objective here and say this: both Taiwan and Beijing's have very good and different reasons to have a strong military. It's pointless to say a country's military is too large - it's NEVER too large; it's just like the economy, would you complain a country's economy is getting too large? It wouldn't make sense. So while there MIGHT be a war or not, a strong military is an asset in both scenario.

At the end of the day, it comes down to which side can achieve it's own goals using a combination of military, political, and economic powers. For China, that would be unification, and Taiwan, total independence.