Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Gollevainen
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Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
IIRC France and Dassault have been very 'uncooperative' with the support of the ROCAF's Mirage 2000-5s, not that they haven't cooperated at all but the supply of spare parts and weapons systems have hardly been as forthcoming compoared to the US support for their F-16 fleet, which is a more widespread aircraft and has a continous amount of supplies and American weapons systems in greater numbers compared to Dassault who shut down Mirage 2000 production and French weapon's system which are always more expensive than American weapons's systems.
The 2 fighter wins tossed around about being retired are most like the F-5E winds with the additional possibility of the Mirage 2000 wings.
Also... Harriers!?!?!?!!? What are they thinking!?!?! Harriers are a nightmare in terms of logistics, and have very limited capabilites as fighter aircraft, in fact, they are not fighter aircraft at all! They're carrier based attack aircraft, and who would sell them to Taiwan?
Also it seems the ROCAF chiefs continue to ignore the IDF even though it seems to be Taiwan's only real option left short of a miracle (getting the F-16).
The 2 fighter wins tossed around about being retired are most like the F-5E winds with the additional possibility of the Mirage 2000 wings.
Also... Harriers!?!?!?!!? What are they thinking!?!?! Harriers are a nightmare in terms of logistics, and have very limited capabilites as fighter aircraft, in fact, they are not fighter aircraft at all! They're carrier based attack aircraft, and who would sell them to Taiwan?
Also it seems the ROCAF chiefs continue to ignore the IDF even though it seems to be Taiwan's only real option left short of a miracle (getting the F-16).
vesicles
Colonel
This may be a little off-topic, but I'm always amazed at how much Taiwan is absolutely willing to depend on outside help. "what happpens if we don't have the weapons we need?" "No worries, US will help us." "What happens if China attacks us?" "No worries, US will help us." I have no clue why the Taiwanese government has the confidence that other nations always feel the obligation to come to the rescue whenever Taiwan is in the need.
Taiwan is not a poor country (or island). It should have the funding to develop its own weapon systems. It may not be as good at first, but that's how everybody starts. Strategic-wise, it is much better than asking for help. I would assume getting weapon systems from other nations would become more and more difficult as China's influence becomes bigger and bigger.
Taiwan is not a poor country (or island). It should have the funding to develop its own weapon systems. It may not be as good at first, but that's how everybody starts. Strategic-wise, it is much better than asking for help. I would assume getting weapon systems from other nations would become more and more difficult as China's influence becomes bigger and bigger.
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
Another option would be to continue maintaining the Mirage fleet, but its operational costs are three times that of the F-16s, said Fu Mei, director of the Taiwan Security Analysis Center.
Who s Mister Fu Mei? Another TW/US lobbyist closed to arm sellers interests? He should give some figures instead of spreading some rumors over here... I am a bit fed up of reading daily taiwanese/us articles like this one! That s pretty easy to criticize Dassault Aviation or frenchies in this case! And Mister Fu Mei, thanks God, a Mirage 2000-5 is more costly than a F-16 Bloc15, but also offers a better potential.
Besides, It s also a nonsense to speak about F-35 purchase. If Taiwan cannot maintain its M2000-5/F-16 fleet in good condition due to a question of cost, how can it be possible to get into this so costly bird, neither in service, nor operational before a full decade...
Sorry pals, I am upset!
Who s Mister Fu Mei? Another TW/US lobbyist closed to arm sellers interests? He should give some figures instead of spreading some rumors over here... I am a bit fed up of reading daily taiwanese/us articles like this one! That s pretty easy to criticize Dassault Aviation or frenchies in this case! And Mister Fu Mei, thanks God, a Mirage 2000-5 is more costly than a F-16 Bloc15, but also offers a better potential.
Besides, It s also a nonsense to speak about F-35 purchase. If Taiwan cannot maintain its M2000-5/F-16 fleet in good condition due to a question of cost, how can it be possible to get into this so costly bird, neither in service, nor operational before a full decade...
Sorry pals, I am upset!
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
Lobbyists such as these have their own interest above that of the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mirage 2000-5 is more expensive to operate than the F-16A/B, its a more advanced aircraft and this is a complaint against all French aircraft but an expensive aircraft is far more useful than no aircraft at all. Also all this IDF-2 buisness is so bizzare, its the C/D!. All the articles I've read about the F-5 has indicated that replacements for the F-5E are urgently needed but I haven't seen any indication that the government is willing to do anything about it other than 'just wait and hope for the F-16 Block 50/52 to go through'.
Pointblank
Senior Member
The Americans probably would, after replacing them with F-35B's. Still a very competent WVR fighter as demonstrated by the Falklands War, and with the AV-8B Harrier II Plus, it is AIM-120 capable, with hardpoints that can carry 4 of them. The radar is also fairly capable, as it is the same one off the F/A-18 Hornet.
I think the major push for a VSTOL fighter is because Taiwan's airfields are so vulnerable to disabling attack. Even though steps have been taken to harden them, and preparations made to utilize highways as landing strips, if Taiwan had a VSTOL fighter that can essentially operate off any large solid flat surface, it would make it much more difficult for the Chinese to knock the ROCAF out of the fight by just targeting the runways; they will have to come to hunt down every single VSTOL fighter, and spend a lot of time and effort doing so, while increasing exposure. And if they don't neutralize this threat, they become the ROCAF's primary strike platform against the Chinese invasion fleet with bombs and missiles.
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
But wouldn't a more capable STOL fighter be a better choice compared to a subsonic VSTOL? The Harrier family may have been given the Argentinians a bloody nose but they were poorly trained and fighting with WVR weapons and radar systems, the AGP-65, while capable of firing the AIM-120 is only single target track capable and lack many features and capabilities of modern mechanical PD radars. Also we must consider than the F-35 is only coming around in 2015-2020 which means Taiwan would have to wait at the very least, 6 years for the first AV-8B Harrier II+ to be retired, the oldest of these airframes would over 20 years old by then. Taiwan would have to wait for the newer built AV-8B Harrier+s to be retired or have the older ones refurbished.
As an attack aircraft though, it would be extremely useful as you said, as a naval strike platform, a strong detterant but as of now, the ROCAF lacks a dedicated attack aircraft, it would have to readjust its military doctrines and procedures to integrate such units into the ROCAF. The lynchpin of all this though would be if the US would even be willing to sell its AV-8B Harrier II+ aircraft to Taiwan and if they would offer some sort of refurbishment plan like Lockheed Martin offered Argentina for the A-4AR Fightinghawk or an indigenous effort with American cooperation like Singapore's A-4SU Super Skyhawk upgrade.
Pointblank
Senior Member
The Taiwanese will be able to upgrade regular AV-8B Harrier II's into the Harrier II + configuration; there are differences in the avionics fit and of course the radar. The USMC was upgrading part of their existing fleet into the AV-8B+ standard with the rest turned into the Night Attack variant, which upgraded the avionics so it was NVG compatible, plus a FLIR. Of course, regular AV-8B Harrier II's no longer exist in the USMC inventory, as all are either Night Attack or Harrier II + standard.