Submarines do not go below 400m anyway so the shallowness doesn't matter. However the noisiness helps reduce detection, since noise generated is one of the ways to detect a submarine.
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- Thread starter Gollevainen
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Submarines do not go below 400m anyway so the shallowness doesn't matter. However the noisiness helps reduce detection, since noise generated is one of the ways to detect a submarine.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It doesn’t make sense because he just copy pasted that from somewhere else.
Generally, coastal waters are good for submarines during peacetime because there is a lot of civilian traffic generating a lot of noise, which makes it a very complicated acoustic environment, especially in shallow waters when the noice can bounce back from rocks on the seabed.
In addition, shallow waters coupled with tidal flow noises can generate a lot of background noises.
Finally, you tend to find a lot of complicated salinity layers near coastal areas, especially around river mouths. These can act as effective barriers that limits the performance of both passive and active sonar (which is why most PLAN warships have variable depth sonar as standard).
The downside is that yes, during peacetime you have a lot of civilian traffic to hide behind, but a lot of that civilian traffic are fishing boats casting nets, which have landed a fair number of foreign, read American, drones in recent years. So sub captains need to be extra careful when trying to sneak around Chinese territorial waters during peace time, because if they get their props tangled in a big net, they might be spending the next few years or decades helping with the development of Xinjiang.
Also, funny coincidence, but civilian shipping tens to disappear awfully quickly from active warzones. So just because there is XX decibels if background civilian traffic noise in peacetime does not mean you can bank on having that same level of noise during wartime.
Another big issue is that shallow waters makes subs much more vulnerable to detection from the air. Be it from the MAD boom of a MPA or the optics of a UAV or even satellites.
But to be honest, most of that is moot. Because SSKs don’t have the endurance to go actively hunting for targets. Instead they are best used as ambush predators who crawl to a good hiding spot and just sit there waiting for enemy ships to come near.
The probably for the ROCN is that the PLAN has had decades to find all these little nice hiding places around Taiwan, owing to their much bigger SSK fleet, so they can and will be sending assets to sweep them for hostiles before launching an amphibious invasion. Hell, PLAN SSKs are likely to be hiding and waiting there even before the ROCN SKKs leave port.
That’s another issue with SSKs, they have limited endurance, so chances are good that the PLA would catch a good number of them in port at the onset of hostilities.
Even if some ROCN SSKs do manage to survive until the PLAN ambitious fleet comes near, they haven’t got the speed to escape after attacking, so its a suicide run and they are only likely to be able to launch one or two salvos of torps each before being swarmed and destroyed by PLAN ASW assets.
Now, you need to bare in mind that the PLAN will absolutely be using its massive 056 fleet to screen its capital ships, who have anti-torpedoe defences of their own. So firing torpedoes is by no means the same as scoring hits, and hits does not automatically equal sunk ships.
Best case scenario, their fleet of 8 subs can score maybe 8 hits, which equals to maybe 8 PLAN ambitious ships sunk or out of action. A significant black eye for the PLAN for sure, but pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of overall impact to the invasion effort.
To be honest, I think the PLAN would have been far more worried if Taiwan spent the money they are using on the subs on more AShM missile batteries and FACs.
If the sub is stationary waiting for a target then they would have much better endurance right?
Can swarms of remote operated fishing trawler dragging huge nets be used as a mobile torpedo screens for 075?
We've seen in quite a few peacetime examples H-6s taking a lap around Taiwan, I don't see how being on the Eastern side will prevent strikes.
Airbases built in mountains certainly can resist most non-nuclear blasts, but the access tunnels and entrances are not.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Thats how SSKs are meant to be operated in the modern age. But they can only remain underwater for maybe a few weeks, depending on how good their AIP is. SSNs can be out at sea for months at a time, with the only limiting factor being how much food they can carry.
You also need to factor in the normal operating cycle of ships is that you can only sustain about 1/3 of your fleet to be out at sea for prolonged periods.
So realistically, of the planned 8 subs, only 2 would likely to be operationally deployed at any given time. With an emergency surge capacity of maybe 4-6 subs.
They can achieve higher surge availability by not deploying their ships permanent long term peacetime deployment, like how the PLAN operates the bulk of its fleet normally, but unlike China, Taiwan has zero strategic depth or much in the way of warning time. That means if they opt to keep their subs ready at port most of the time, they are liable to be taken out before they even get a chance to put out to sea if China chooses to strike first rather then wait for Taiwan to set up and declare formal independence first.
That has always been the problem with ROCN, they are too vain and always goes for big ticket prestige purchases that puts a lot of eggs in few baskets and makes it very difficult for them to offer the PLAN as much challenge as they could, had they pursued a more hard-nosed results-focused procurement strategy.
The associated fighter cover needed to escort the bombers will not be forthcoming that far out unless you deploy the carriers into the Pacific. That carries its own risks.
Eh? How big of a loop around the island are you assuming? Unless fighter escort plans on taking a sight seeing trip to the Spratleys I don't see how they would possibly run out of fuel
Window is closing... if Trump doesnt do something insane in next 6 weeks and Biden does status quo on the TW issue for 4 years, by the time Pompeo is in office 2024 it will be too late for US to do TW independence