Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Taiwan did a 'show of force' into the disputed waters today. Not sure though if it's by naval or just coast guard boats.
Japan will probably be as nervous as China if not more by any future US arms sales to Taiwan, maybe the F-16C/D after the Olympics as some have reported.



Japan Protests Taiwan Ships Entering Disputed Waters (Update1)

By Toko Sekiguchi and Takashi Hirokawa
Enlarge Image/Details

June 16 (Bloomberg) -- Japan lodged a protest with Taiwan after at least two of its vessels entered waters disputed by both countries, potentially deepening a diplomatic rift over the sinking of a Taiwanese fishing boat.

``It's deplorable that the territorial violation happened despite repeated warnings,'' Chief Cabinet Secretary Nobutaka Machimura said during a press conference in Tokyo. ``All those involved must maintain their calm.''

As many as 10 Taiwanese vessels temporarily entered waters claimed by Japan, Taiwan and China in the East China Sea this morning, Kyodo News reported. The ships crossed into Japanese waters to protest a ship collision involving a Taiwanese boat last week, Kyodo cited the Japanese Coast Guard as saying.

Taiwan recalled its envoy to Japan on June 14 and rejected a Japanese account of the sinking incident. A Japanese coast guard ship on patrol spotted the Taiwanese boat and collided with it while trying to identify it, Kyodo reported, citing coast guard officials it didn't name.

The ship sank, prompting protests in Taiwan. All crew were rescued. A Taiwanese foreign ministry statement on June 14 called the Japanese Coast Guard actions ``arbitrary'' and asked Japanese officials to apologize.

Taiwan, Japan and China each claim the islands where the incident occurred as part of their territory. Japan refers to the islands as the Senkaku.

``There is no question that the Senkaku islands are an inherent territory of Japan,'' Machimura said today.

To contact the reporter on this story: Takashi Hirokawa in Tokyo at [email protected]; Toko Sekiguchi in Tokyo at [email protected].
Last Updated: June 16, 2008 00:39 EDT

SampanViking said:

Well I would not be so quick to dismiss. As both ROC and PRC both share the claim to all Chinese territory. I am sure the PRC would be pleased to support the ROC claim in a strange form of self interest by proxy.

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kliu makes a good point - why should Taiwan damage relations with Japan (which is its friendliest Asian neighbour) to help out China (which has indicated it is willing to use deadly force to ensure unification)?

The Senkaku islands are currently held by Japan, and any future negotiation would probably be between China and Japan exclusively. Whoever got it, it wouldn't be Taiwan.

kliu I think you're overrating the Keelung destroyers if you think they can chase off what the MSDF has to offer!

Schumacher said:

Japan will probably be as nervous as China if not more by any future US arms sales to Taiwan, maybe the F-16C/D after the Olympics as some have reported.

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Doubt it. Patriots, Apaches and Black Hawks are no threat to Japan. Even submarines (if they're built) would be for coastal defence and thus unlikely to trouble the MSDF.

As for F-16s, the ASDF's F-15s and future aircraft could deal with any situation.

Taiwan won't go to war with Japan given the US wouldn't help it, there's little to gain and it would certainly loose. It just looks like some hot-heads in the legislative made the defence minister say something that was taken out of context - not that he would go to war with Japan, simply that war is the last resort. Probably not sensible to say that anyway but hardly that bad.

But its funny how the KMT government/MPs are now fanning the fire when it always complained about the last president's "war-mongering". Pot calling kettle black methinks!

kliu0 said:

What the difference between the M109 and the PIM upgrade? Changhua? You from Taiwan?

By the way, if those upgrades are available for procurement and does the job I think the ROC should go for it. But they should also prioritizing upgrading their air defense first. The new Sky Bow III missiles should come into operation within the next few years, I believe Taiwan should not decommission the old missiles, but rather place them all over Taiwan to improve the coverage of the anti-aircraft/missile system. The HAWK and Sky Bow I, II are still very good missile systems. And the first generation and second generation Hsiung Feng anti-ship missile should be placed onto various outlying islands and mainland Taiwan coastal areas to maximize defense. Nothing wrong with improving coverage right?

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Yes, I was born in Changhua, and can probably talk your ears off about how middle TW is treated like a place where birds don't lay eggs. But this is probably not the place for it.

Here's an article on M109A6 PIM upgrade:


I favor upgrades where the local defense industry would benefit from tech transfers, jobs, and manufacturing of spares. Also, as an upgrade program, ROCA can pick and choose which components are necessary and best suited for their needs.

The HF-1 is pretty old and should probably be retired. For the HAWK SAM, how about HAWK AMRRAM upgrade, but with locally produced and modified TC-2?



TK-3 is TW's domestic missile shield program and I doubt that'd be axed.

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As for the recent fishing boat collision incident, I'd like to invite everyone to read the drastically different reporting by Japanese & Taiwanese press:


"Taiwanese vessel runs into patrol ship"


"Taipei hardens stance over collision near disputed isles"


"Japanese official expresses 'regret' over boat collision"


"Skipper to file suit against Japan"


"U.S. will not get into dispute: AIT director"


If you believe in conspiracy theories, the Japanese action could be to give the newly elected Ma a little "bump" to test him. Unfortunately, both sides failed the test as the Japanese "bump" turned into a crash, and ROC government's initial muted response was seen as a display of weakness by its own supporters.

However, both sides are still playing by the rules and only Coast Guard cutters are involved.




This is an area where ROC and Japan are good at, they both have a fleet of CG Cutters to send instead of warships. It helps in preventing the confrontation from escalating to a shooting war. PRC's Coast Guard is lacking in this department but slowly improving.

why should Taiwan damage relations with Japan (which is its friendliest Asian neighbour) to help out China (which has indicated it is willing to use deadly force to ensure unification)?

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Or maybe you are describing yesterdays world and this is the wake up call for today, with warm Taiwanese Japanese ties under the DPP deteriorating and being replaced with warmer cross straits relations. Both sides have agreed to open permanent offices in each others territory (the most significant development from the recent restarted talks).

Are things ever that simple? not really as its a real Ménage à trois with China and Japan reporting being close to completing a deal to settle the East China Sea dispute.



So maybe ROC and PRC would be better off settling these matters together afterall?

Mr T said:

Doubt it. Patriots, Apaches and Black Hawks are no threat to Japan. Even submarines (if they're built) would be for coastal defence and thus unlikely to trouble the MSDF.

As for F-16s, the ASDF's F-15s and future aircraft could deal with any situation.

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Don't underestimate the Taiwanese military, everywhere in the world people underestimate it. Remember during the 20th century everyone underestimated the Vietcong and other guirella groups? They won. Taiwan even though has great relations with Japan will defend their sovereignty of whats left of the Republic of China. How about the new Hsiung Feng IIE missiles ? They can hit Shanghai, why not Japan? The F-16s, IDFs, Mirage 2000Es, F-5s pose a threat to Japan. If Taiwan sends its navy it would definately pose a threat and trouble the MSDF. End result is = don't underestimate Taiwan, they've been dealt that card for too long.

adeptitus, why would i talk about how central Taiwan is treated. We are all Taiwanese. What i meant before was that Taiwan could use older systems elsewhere to expand their military defense coverage. And perhaps use them as a backup if all else fails.



Naval vessels to escort legislators to Diaoyutai islands

STAFF WRITER, WITH CNA
Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008, Page 3

Naval vessels will be dispatched to escort a group of legislators on their planned visit to the disputed Diaoyutai islands, Ministry of National Defense spokeswoman Lisa Chi (池玉蘭) said yesterday.

The Navy was making plans for the proposed trip by a group of lawmakers from the legislature’s Diplomacy and National Defense Committee, led by Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Legislator Lin Yu-fang (林郁芳), Chi said.

Lin announced earlier that the trip — scheduled for tomorrow — will be aimed at “finding facts, claiming sovereignty and protecting the rights of Taiwanese fishing boats.”

It was still uncertain whether Minister of National Defense Chen Chao-min (陳肇敏) would accompany the legislators on the trip, Chi said.

“Relevant details, such as the type of vessels, ministry personnel to be assigned to the mission, and whether the convoy will enter the disputed 12-nautical-mile [22km] zone around the Diaoyutais, are yet to be finalized,” Chi said.

The Diaoyutais have been at the center of a territorial dispute involving Japan, Taiwan and China for decades.

The waters around the island group have traditionally been a fishing ground for Taiwanese fishermen.

Lin said the legislators were determined to make the trip tomorrow, adding that “the decision will not be changed unless Japan apologizes and offers compensation.”

*Reports indicate that the legislators are travelling abroad a La Fayette frigate to the area. This can be found on the second page of the article on

SampanViking said:

Or maybe you are describing yesterdays world and this is the wake up call for today, with warm Taiwanese Japanese ties under the DPP deteriorating and being replaced with warmer cross straits relations.

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If they are deteriorating it's down to Chinese nationalist politicians beating the drum of war. Their choice but a very stupid one - annoy your friends and then you've got no one to help you if China decides to dictate unreasonable terms.

Today's world is that Japan is still willing to be Taiwan's friend. The question is, does the KMT want to accept that friendship? Better ties with China shouldn't mean worsening relations with other countries.

Are things ever that simple? not really as its a real Ménage à trois with China and Japan reporting being close to completing a deal to settle the East China Sea dispute.

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Read the article more carefully - it talks about resources, not sovereignty over the region. A good development though note Taiwan is excluded - China has hardly offered it a place at the negotiating table.

kliu0 said:

Don't underestimate the Taiwanese military, everywhere in the world people underestimate it. Remember during the 20th century everyone underestimated the Vietcong and other guirella groups? They won.

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Yes and those groups would be land forces. A conflict with Japan would be air and sea-based - i.e. technology would play a far greater role.

How about the new Hsiung Feng IIE missiles ? They can hit Shanghai, why not Japan?

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Because the Japanese mainland is much further away, that's why. They could hit Okinawa, but given the US bases there that would be very stupid.

The F-16s, IDFs, Mirage 2000Es, F-5s pose a threat to Japan.

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Without refuelling aircraft (which Taiwan doesn't have, nor has the US offered) they wouldn't pose a threat because Japan wouldn't attack Taiwan directly.

If Taiwan sends its navy it would definately pose a threat and trouble the MSDF.

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If it came to conflict, the MSDF would come out tops. My view which I'm entitled to.

If they are deteriorating it's down to Chinese nationalist politicians beating the drum of war. Their choice but a very stupid one - annoy your friends and then you've got no one to help you if China decides to dictate unreasonable terms.

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One can say the same about the Japanese nationalist politicians, if not more so, but as things will most likely demonstrate the pocketbook will speak louder than anything else.

So, it seems Japan has offered a regret/apology & promised compensation to the fishing boat. Adding this to the Taiwanese coast guard escorted flotilla to the disputed waters yesterday, I'd give high marks to the KMT government on handling this. The Taiwanese & Japanese responses above are unprecedented I believe with regard to this issue.

I believe better cross-straits ties played a big part to this, a card the previous DPP government was never able/willing to play with regard to its relationship with Japan.

Published on Taipei Times


Japan’s representative expresses regret
NOT SATISFIED: Minister of Foreign Affairs Francisco Ou said that although Tokyo had promised to pay damages for a boat collision, Japan still needed to apologize
By Jenny W. Hsu
STAFF REPORTER, WITH CNA
Monday, Jun 16, 2008, Page 1

Five days after the collision between a Taiwanese fishing boat and a Japanese coast guard patrol boat near the Diaoyutai (釣魚台) islands, Japan’s representative to Taiwan expressed Tokyo’s regret over the incident to Ho Hung-yi (何鴻義), the captain of the fishing boat.

Koichi Ito, director-general of the Interchange Association, Japan’s representative office in Taiwan, visited Ho yesterday afternoon at his home in Rueifang Township (瑞芳), Taipei County, with personnel from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Ito said that the patrol boat Koshiki had not rammed Ho’s boat on purpose.

Ito did not use the word “apology” in his statement yesterday. He said, however, that the Japanese Coast Guard would compensate Ho as required by law.

On Tuesday, the day of the accident, Ito said the collision had occurred “in Japan’s territorial waters,” but said “the incident should be handled so as not to influence the positive relations between Tokyo and Taipei.”

APOLOGY WANTED

Minister of Foreign Affairs Francisco Ou (歐鴻鍊) told a press conference yesterday that although Japan had shown its goodwill by releasing the people who were aboard the Taiwanese boat and agreeing to compensate them, “we are not satisfied with Japan’s lack of a formal apology.”

“We will continue to work hard to obtain a formal apology from Japan,” Ou said.

He said the government’s priority was to resolve the incident and protect the rights of the fishermen involved.

“All issues regarding the dispute over the sovereignty [of the Diaoyutais] will be discussed later as we engage in further negotiations with Japan,” he said.

Earlier yesterday, Executive Yuan Secretary-General Hsueh Hsiang-chuan (薛香川) visited Ho and said the government would file a lawsuit in a local court against Japan for detaining Ho for four days.

“We will help Captain Ho, who owns the boat, seek compensation for losses and an apology from the Japanese government,” Hsueh said.

“Since the Diaoyutais are part of the Republic of China’s territory, we will file the suit in Taiwan, on the grounds that the Japanese patrol illegally intruded into the country’s territorial waters,” he said.

TOUGHEN UP

Ho said the government must take a tougher stance and hold a press conference with foreign media “to tell the whole world of Japan’s arrogance.”

“It was entirely their [the Japanese coast guards’] fault. I did nothing wrong ... They rammed their boat into my small fishing boat on purpose. That should count as [attempted] premeditated murder,” Ho said.

Hsueh said he would help Ho obtain an interest-free loan to cover the damages and said the Executive Yuan would increase from three to seven the number of navy patrols protecting the nation’s fishing boats in its territorial waters.

Meanwhile, Representative to Japan Koh Se-kai (許世楷) returned to Taipei last night after the ministry recalled him on Saturday to report on his contact with the Japanese government over the incident.

Ou confirmed yesterday that the recall was a form of diplomatic protest, but said it did not mean that Koh would not return to Japan.

At a meeting with colleagues in Tokyo yesterday, Koh reportedly said that the ministry should “handle the incident rationally,” given that “maintaining good relations with Japan is crucial to Taiwan.”

The Japanese word for “regret” can also mean “apology,” said Koh at a press conference late last night after a 45-minute closed door meeting with Ou.

“In many instances throughout the history, Japan used the word ‘regret’ to express its apology,” he said.

When asked if the ministry would accept such answer, Ou smiled and said: “We can feel Japan’s good will in their response in this matter.”

Koh said that many people in Japan have expressed that they hope the incident will not damage bilateral relations.

Also See: DPP criticizes KMT over recall of envoy
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