Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

vesicles said:

I'm still a little confused about the missile incident. Why is the HF-3 called a carrier killer? It's deployed on a corvette... Is it ever big enough to do anything to a carrier?

Also, why did it take the missile 25 minutes to cover 40 NM? Was it drawing circles in the air like those bullets and missiles in classic Disney/WB cartoons???

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They call HF-3 a "carrier killer" because it is a fairly large supersonic missile, not dissimilar to Moskit sized.

And yes, the ROC deploys HF-3s on ships as small as a corvette/FAC... despite the fact that the large size of the missile means each can only carry a limited number compared to smaller missiles like HF-2.

vesicles said:

I'm still a little confused about the missile incident. Why is the HF-3 called a carrier killer? It's deployed on a corvette... Is it ever big enough to do anything to a carrier?

Also, why did it take the missile 25 minutes to cover 40 NM? Was it drawing circles in the air like those bullets and missiles in classic Disney/WB cartoons???

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It's a carrier killer because Taiwan currently doesn't have anything better and the Taiwanese media needs to make everybody feel good about him/herself somehow.

As for the missile speed... I think it's a case of misreporting. The missile took two minutes from launch to striking the target, but the crew of the ship -- undoubtedly in shock from the ordeal -- took around twenty minutes to signal for help.

vesicles said:

I'm still a little confused about the missile incident. Why is the HF-3 called a carrier killer? It's deployed on a corvette... Is it ever big enough to do anything to a carrier?

Also, why did it take the missile 25 minutes to cover 40 NM? Was it drawing circles in the air like those bullets and missiles in classic Disney/WB cartoons???

Click to expand...

"carrier killer" is because someone think Mainland is going to use CV-16 Liaoning against Taiwan (for whatever reason?) and think it can sunk Liaoning. Other than Liaoning, I really don't think Taiwan want to target any other CVs in the world.

20 minutes to cover 40NM? I am sure we all have released a balloon without sealing it. Fun with a balloon, but a lot scarier with a missile.

The concept is not unheard of, The PLA used the Russian Osa class back in 60's that operated on a similar concept. a small highly mobile boat that could move from the Latorials or hide around islands or dart out in the Open Ocean and punch well over it's weight class.

siegecrossbow said:

As for the missile speed... I think it's a case of misreporting. The missile took two minutes from launch to striking the target, but the crew of the ship -- undoubtedly in shock from the ordeal -- took around twenty minutes to signal for help.

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Could be, but remember it is an accident most likely, the missile very likely did not have any targeting data loaded. I don't know what the missile's navigation program will do in this situation, go straight until fuel burnt out? or circle around to search for a target just like if it would have lost it in a real shot? Or go randomly? If the poor fishing boat was not there, who knows where the missile will end up. That is the scary part of the incident because 2 out of the 3 possibilities will end it up at mainland.

vesicles said:

Also, why did it take the missile 25 minutes to cover 40 NM? Was it drawing circles in the air like those bullets and missiles in classic Disney/WB cartoons???

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Just because the fishing boat was 40NM away doesn't mean the missile flew 40NM only.

Modern missiles can be programmed with waypoints to fly a circular route in order to attack from an unexpected direction for example.

Also, since the launch was 'accidental', there would not be a real actual target out in the pre-programmed target zone for the missile to hit once it got there (whatever route it took).

It looks on the face of it that the missile then went into some sort of automated search pattern in the target zone until it locked onto something, which happened to have been the unfortunate fishing boat.

What is interesting and worrying is how the missile was allowed to effectively go rouge for 25 minutes.

That would suggest the missile lacks any sort of effective mid-course guidance update ability. If it had such an ability, the ROC military should have been able to effect a self destruct fairly easily and safely by ordering the missile to ditch anywhere in the sea.

The fact that they initially reported the missiles as having caused no casualties would also strongly suggest that they lost track of the missile and didn't know where it had ended up until they heard about the fishing boat.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The concept is not unheard of, The PLA used the Russian Osa class back in 60's that operated on a similar concept. a small highly mobile boat that could move from the Latorials or hide around islands or dart out in the Open Ocean and punch well over it's weight class.

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The idea of using FACs with missiles is not new... the Chinese Navy with the 022 class FAC at the time was called a "carrier killer," and in many ways seemed to inspire the ROC Navy's SWATH catamaran missile boats/corvettes as well.

I think the thing to take away from the name "carrier killer" is that it really doesn't mean anything specific or precise and can be twisted to suit the capability of a weapon however the user wants to.

Let's talk about something unrelated to HsiungFeng for once.

TAIPEI — Taiwan has secured the new AIM-9X Blk-2 Sidewinder air-to-air missile from the United States.

The July 1 contract notification entails 40 Raytheon-built AIM-9Xs and 40 AIM-9X training missiles, along with four spare propulsion steering sections containers.

The sale was made via the Foreign Military Sales program under the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency. Work is expected to be completed in March 2019, and the US Naval Air Systems Command is the contacting activity.

Taiwan’s F-16A/B Block 20 fighter aircraft are undergoing a midlife upgrade (MLU), and the new AIM-9Xs will complement the F-16s' arsenal of AIM-7M Sparrow, AIM-9P/M and AMRAAM AIM-120 air-to-air missiles.

A Taiwan Ministry of National Defense source said the small order of only 40 AIM-9X missiles will be integrated and evaluated under the MLU program and will then be followed on by a larger order.

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taxiya said:

Could be, but remember it is an accident most likely, the missile very likely did not have any targeting data loaded. I don't know what the missile's navigation program will do in this situation, go straight until fuel burnt out? or circle around to search for a target just like if it would have lost it in a real shot? Or go randomly? If the poor fishing boat was not there, who knows where the missile will end up. That is the scary part of the incident because 2 out of the 3 possibilities will end it up at mainland.

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I think Mainland's coastal defense will easily pick up the missile signals. Most likely, the missile had been tracked by the mainland as soon as it was launched. The mainland should have no problem detecting it especially if it was in the air for 25 min. If it kept going towards the mainland, it would have been intercepted. In fact, the unusual radar signals mentioned by Wolf point to this possibility.

Also, since the launch was 'accidental', there would not be a real actual target out in the pre-programmed target zone for the missile to hit once it got there (whatever route it took).

It looks on the face of it that the missile then went into some sort of automated search pattern in the target zone until it locked onto something, which happened to have been the unfortunate fishing boat.

What is interesting and worrying is how the missile was allowed to effectively go rouge for 25 minutes.

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Taiwanese media reported the missile travelled 40nm in 2 minutes. So that is about right = 1200 nm/hr, given this supersonic missile's speed is about mach 2-3.

Somehow, western media reported it travelled 25 minutes.

According to the so-called military experts on Taiwanese TV, the missile was launched into the 'simulated' pre-programmed target zone and once the missile got there started sweeping for moving target and it happened to be the unfortunate fishing boat. The deceased captain was reported having half of his head got shaved off, and the other surviving crews were sleeping so didn't know what happened. Their main concern at the time was fearing their boat might sink.

The superior officer at the time of missile launch was grabbing some water to drink, only left for 40 sec while the junior officer was alone, and was reported choked while drinking when he heard the missile launch. The whole fiasco was supposed to be some sort of exam for the naval officers and the setting was supposed to be on the 'simulated mode' and not 'war mode'.