Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

thunderchief said:

IMHO , biggest drawback of the ship is lack of SAMs . According to public information ,all they have is a 76mm gun and Phalanx CIWS . So , if discovered they would be hard pressed to defend themselves.

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They are relatively short range/endurance vessels, like the Type 022, and have basically the same mission.

Dash out in flotilla groups and launch saturation attacks against capitol vessels of the opposition.

When they do that, they are liekly to be under fleet defense coverage of a Kee Lung DDG or Cheng Kung FFG. The CIWS each carriers is predominantly for leaker missiles.

Anyhow, carrying 16 missiles is a large payload. If they operate in groups of four, that would be 64 missiles, or the same as 16 Type 022s. That's a large SSM attack and not bad.

But it also a means corresponding larger amount firepower reduction for each one of them that is disables or loss. Trade-offs each way.

Jeff Head said:

They are relatively short range/endurance vessels, like the Type 022, and have basically the same mission.

Dash out in flotilla groups and launch saturation attacks against capitol vessels of the opposition.

When they do that, they are liekly to be under fleet defense coverage of a Kee Lung DDG or Cheng Kung FFG. The CIWS each carriers is predominantly for leaker missiles.

Anyhow, carrying 16 missiles is a large payload. If they operate in groups of four, that would be 64 missiles, or the same as 16 Type 022s. That's a large SSM attack and not bad.

But it also a means corresponding larger amount firepower reduction for each one of them that is disables or loss. Trade-offs each way.

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On a side note, they will be operating alongside the Kuang Hua VI-class missile boats, which also operates in groups of four, and each with 4 SSMs, so that means a total of 80 supersonic SSMs.

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Remember what happened to the Iraqi Navy in the First Gulf War (if you don't have air superiority, I doubt that the ROCN has enough long range AAD to protect its FAC).

ToxicStar said:

Ekranoplan would require a huge amount of resource, funding, and industrial facilities to build, which is what Taiwan just cannot afford. Even the Soviet Union at the height of its industrial power couldn't create a satisfactory result, I don't think Taiwan can do a better job at it.

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I know , I was joking But if you really want to use hit-and-run tactics on carrier battle group , you would definitely need something much faster then this corvette .

Jeff Head said:

They are relatively short range/endurance vessels, like the Type 022, and have basically the same mission.

Dash out in flotilla groups and launch saturation attacks against capitol vessels of the opposition.

When they do that, they are liekly to be under fleet defense coverage of a Kee Lung DDG or Cheng Kung FFG. The CIWS each carriers is predominantly for leaker missiles.

Anyhow, carrying 16 missiles is a large payload. If they operate in groups of four, that would be 64 missiles, or the same as 16 Type 022s. That's a large SSM attack and not bad.

But it also a means corresponding larger amount firepower reduction for each one of them that is disables or loss. Trade-offs each way.

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They are similar to Type 022 (and other missile boats) but mission is definitely different . Missile boats are usually used close to shore and close to land based air support , or at least close to shoreline where they could hide . PLAN uses them like floating ASM batteries to protect its long coast similar to other countries in the world .

Taiwan on the other hand wants to use them like torpedo boats in WW1 ( see for example sinking of SMS Szent István ) - to penetrate screens of capital ships and then to attack them . This tactic was already pretty much obsolete in WW2 because of advent of air power . In case of the war with China , Taiwanese ships could not expect any significant air support in open seas . Even larger ships like Kee Lung Class (best AD ships Taiwanese have) could hardly survive salvos of sea skimming missiles . And ships like Hsun Hai-class would simply ride into their own death if they venture far from the shore .

ToxicStar said:

On a side note, they will be operating alongside the Kuang Hua VI-class missile boats, which also operates in groups of four, and each with 4 SSMs, so that means a total of 80 supersonic SSMs.

>>>>> Moderator Removed contentious comments <<<<<

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None of these vessels appear to have a very extensive sensor suite so how close are they expected to get to an opposing force before firing? Otherwise, they will rely heavily on external guidance for those missiles. If 2,500 to 3,000 ton variant, it should be able to have a hangar and bigger sensors.

joshuatree said:

None of these vessels appear to have a very extensive sensor suite so how close are they expected to get to an opposing force before firing? Otherwise, they will rely heavily on external guidance for those missiles. If 2,500 to 3,000 ton variant, it should be able to have a hangar and bigger sensors.

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I think they are meant to be able to operate off of other sensors data that is fed to them over a data link.

Other vessels, MPA, other patrol aircraft, particularly from the six E-2 Hawkeye aircraft that Taiwan operates. As long as they stay relatively close in, and then operate off of that data that locates the vessel groupings they are expected to attack, and then dash out to launch...I think that is how they are meant to operate.

thunderchief said:

They are similar to Type 022 (and other missile boats) but mission is definitely different . Missile boats are usually used close to shore and close to land based air support , or at least close to shoreline where they could hide . PLAN uses them like floating ASM batteries to protect its long coast similar to other countries in the world .

Taiwan on the other hand wants to use them like torpedo boats in WW1 ( see for example sinking of SMS Szent István ) - to penetrate screens of capital ships and then to attack them.

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I do not think their missons are that much different.

According to the contacts I have in Taiwan, they are not meant to operate at any great distance from the island.

They are meant to operate against surface groups approaching Taiwan...particularly in the event of an invasion type force.

As such, they will remain under Taiwan's aircraft umbrella/range. and also be protected by the surface vessels I mentioned.

If they had to venture several hundred miles north or south into the China Sea or to the east into the Pacific, they would not survivie to accomplish their mission.

ToxicStar said:

On a side note, they will be operating alongside the Kuang Hua VI-class missile boats, which also operates in groups of four, and each with 4 SSMs, so that means a total of 80 supersonic SSMs.

>>>>> Moderator Removed contentious comments <<<<<

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I don't think that last sentence was necessary don't you think?

First off China and Taiwan is not at war so if the two ever meet nobody would be having a bad day.

Secondly the odds of both countries going into a shooting war is extremely unlikely despite less than warm relations.

Apologies for the last sentence of my last post, guess I should read the forum rules more carefully.

Jeff Head said:

I think they are meant to be able to operate off of other sensors data that is fed to them over a data link.

Other vessels, MPA, other patrol aircraft, particularly from the six E-2 Hawkeye aircraft that Taiwan operates. As long as they stay relatively close in, and then operate off of that data that locates the vessel groupings they are expected to attack, and then dash out to launch...I think that is how they are meant to operate.

I do not think their missons are that much different.

According to the contacts I have in Taiwan, they are not meant to operate at any great distance from the island.

They are meant to operate against surface groups approaching Taiwan...particularly in the event of an invasion type force.

As such, they will remain under Taiwan's aircraft umbrella/range. and also be protected by the surface vessels I mentioned.

If they had to venture several hundred miles north or south into the China Sea or to the east into the Pacific, they would not survivie to accomplish their mission.

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Agreed, for the scenarios claimed by the media, IMHO the concept of using it against an aircraft carrier group is being too opitimistic and naive. If I were the commander of an invasion force, I wouldn't put my aircraft carrier anywhere close to the island.

Due to the killing of a Taiwanese Fisherman in controversial water earlier this year. Despite the fact that a joint military exercise involving Kee Lung class DDG was conducted in the area as a demonstration of strength, Kee Lung class is just too expensive to operate on a long term.
I believe that Hsun-Hai Class would be better suited as a long term demonstration of strength and protection of fishing vessels in case similar incident happens again in the future due to their cheaper operating cost.

Anyhow, Hsun-Hai class is the first step for Ma adminstration's policy of building indigenous submarine and naval vessels, although submarine and DDG are much more complex projects compared to missile corvettes, Hsun-Hai is still a milestone on this policy.

ToxicStar said:

Apologies for the last sentence of my last post, guess I should read the forum rules more carefully.



Agreed, for the scenarios claimed by the media, IMHO the concept of using it against a aircraft carrier group is being too opitimistic and naive. If I were the commander of an invasion force, I wouldn't put the aircraft carrier anywhere close to the island.

Due to the killing of a Taiwanese Fisherman in controversial water earlier this year. Despite the fact that a joint military exercise involving Kee Lung class DDG was conducted in the area as a demonstration of strength, Kee Lung class is just too expensive to operate on a long term.
I believe that Hsun-Hai Class would be better suited as a long term demonstration of strength and protection of fishing vessels in case similar incidents happen in the future due to their cheaper operating cost.

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Which waters were these, and by whom was the fisherman shot? I recall hearing about the Philippines, is that who you refer to?

Bltizo said:

Which waters were these, and by whom was the fisherman shot? I recall hearing about the Philippines, is that who you refer to?

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Yes, the fisherman was killed by Filipino coast guards, within the overlapping exclusive economic zones of Taiwan and the Philippines.