Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Skywatcher · Aug 20, 2013

The problem is, Iraqi FAC didn't fare too well against Coalition aircraft in 1991.

Now, the PLAAF and PLANAF manned aircraft might not be able to get close to the shores of Taiwan for a while, but UCAVs like the Sharp Sword will be a major headache.

Blitzo · Aug 20, 2013

Also, they will need some sort of offboard targeting to make full use of their 130km and 160km range (which let's be honest, isn't that great at all).

Definitely a valid attempt to try and counter the PLAN's greater surface combatants, but it really depends on how many they build. If they get anywhere near the 022's ~80 boat number, then PLAN could have a headache... but if it's only a dozen or so, the challenge would be quite manageable.

I still think what Taiwan should invest in are small diesel subs, to take advantage of PLAN's current relative weakness in ASW.

Skywatcher · Aug 20, 2013

Bltizo said:
I still think what Taiwan should invest in are small diesel subs, to take advantage of PLAN's current relative weakness in ASW.

They made an announcement about the small SSKs, along with some "help" from an "unnamed European country" back in April 2013, IIRC.

Though if they build both the FAC and small SSK, and add on budget pressure from the Cloud Peak white elephant, the HF-IIE cruise missile and whatever future AIDC fighter buy/F16 or F35 purchase, money is going to be stretched pretty thing, possibly to the point of having a few examples of each platform and excelling at none.

TerraN_EmpirE · Aug 20, 2013

Correction that barret is the M107A1 the A1 is because of reduced weight and a new muzzle break that excepts a suppressor.

joshuatree · Aug 20, 2013

Jeff Head said:
So, 16 x HF-II and/or HF-III SSMs, one 20mm Phalanx CIWS and a DP, rapid fire 76mm naval gun.

I would have either made provisions for both a 20mm Phalanx and a SeaRAM, or perhaps just the SeaRAM for CIWS. And what, a 40 knot speed?

Anyhow, depending on how many they build, this could be a very strong addition to their navy.

Don't know how much a catamaran hull would compensate but I feel it would be top heavy and probably very short on endurance. Another thought would be a strong need for external guidance to make the most of the missiles since it appears to have a very low sensor suite.

Maybe sell as export to help generate revenue to build their own fleet?

Jeff Head · Aug 21, 2013

Bltizo said:
Also, they will need some sort of offboard targeting to make full use of their 130km and 160km range (which let's be honest, isn't that great at all).

Clearly the use will be for cross strait situations for these vessels. These are an attempt at an asymetrical field leveler. In the straits, that range is plenty adequate, and being so close to the country itself, they are likely to have a lot of coverage for sensors...at least initially.

Bltizo said:
Definitely a valid attempt to try and counter the PLAN's greater surface combatants, but it really depends on how many they build. If they get anywhere near the 022's ~80 boat number, then PLAN could have a headache... but if it's only a dozen or so, the challenge would be quite manageable.

I still think what Taiwan should invest in are small diesel subs, to take advantage of PLAN's current relative weakness in ASW.

Agree 100% with both of these. Their most critical need is definitely submarines...and they are languishing on this. No one seems willing to help them.

joshuatree said:
Don't know how much a catamaran hull would compensate but I feel it would be top heavy and probably very short on endurance. Another thought would be a strong need for external guidance to make the most of the missiles since it appears to have a very low sensor suite.

I do not think they need huge enduracne for their likely use. The article states 500 miles or so in terms of radius.

And, in the straits and the proximity of the island, they are going to have beaucoup sensor and targeting coverage from the E-2 Hawkeyes they have, their own land based long range radar, and their other more capable vessels like the Kidds.

thunderchief · Aug 22, 2013

In case of war , Taiwan's strategy would be to hold out two or three months until US prepares themselves for the war with China (both materially and mentally using media like in recent examples ) . Hopefully by that time China would back-off to avoid potential global thermonuclear conflict .
If the PLA manages to land and establish firm beached before American intervention war will be essentially over . So , they are building hedgehog defense around island with sufficient firepower that even if the 50% of their assets gets destroyed they could still repel invasion before it lands or just as they land . Range is not a primary concern - I believe that Taiwanese leadership is fully aware that in the case of war they would be essentially blockaded until US intervenes . Chinese air power would be simply too strong in open seas , so Taiwanese navy would simply lurk near the coast for opportunity to strike unsuspecting enemy .

vesicles · Aug 22, 2013

thunderchief said:
In case of war , Taiwan's strategy would be to hold out two or three months until US prepares themselves for the war with China (both materially and mentally using media like in recent examples ) . Hopefully by that time China would back-off to avoid potential global thermonuclear conflict .
If the PLA manages to land and establish firm beached before American intervention war will be essentially over . So , they are building hedgehog defense around island with sufficient firepower that even if the 50% of their assets gets destroyed they could still repel invasion before it lands or just as they land . Range is not a primary concern - I believe that Taiwanese leadership is fully aware that in the case of war they would be essentially blockaded until US intervenes . Chinese air power would be simply too strong in open seas , so Taiwanese navy would simply lurk near the coast for opportunity to strike unsuspecting enemy .

2-3 months? At one of the congressional hearings held in Taiwan, Li Ao asked a general how long Taiwan could hold in an event that China attacked. The general hesitated and Li asked whether it can be longer than a week. Then the general shook his head. this was some time ago...

In an unlikely event of a Mainland attack, the length of time for an effective defense on Taiwan island is on the scale of days, if not hours.

And why do people always mention "global thermonuclear conflict"? China is a nuclear power. In any potential conflict between China and the US, both parties know they are facing a nuclear power and no one will use nukes! Period. that is why it's called a nuclear deterrence.

thunderchief · Aug 22, 2013

vesicles said:
2-3 months? At one of the congressional hearings held in Taiwan, Li Ao asked a general how long Taiwan could hold in an event that China attacked. The general hesitated and Li asked whether it can be longer than a week. Then the general shook his head. this was some time ago...

In an unlikely event of a Mainland attack, the length of time for an effective defense on Taiwan island is on the scale of days, if not hours.

Well , if it is really matter of days , China should invade right now

Seriously , in campaigns like this , you would first need to eliminate Taiwan's air force and air defense . Then , you would had to eliminate most of the Taiwan's navy and coastal defense . Finally , you would have to soften Taiwanese army sufficiently to perform successful landings . All this things come in phases , and each phase requires time and resources .

vesicles said:
And why do people always mention "global thermonuclear conflict"? China is a nuclear power. In any potential conflict between China and the US, both parties know they are facing a nuclear power and no one will use nukes! Period. that is why it's called a nuclear deterrence.

There were some simulations of "limited" conflict between Soviet Union and US back in good old days of Cold War

. They showed that loosing side could easily get tempted to use "few" tactical nuclear warheads . Other side then retaliates and before you know you get big bang

.

vesicles · Aug 22, 2013

thunderchief said:
Well , if it is really matter of days , China should invade right now

Just because they have the capability, it doesn't mean they have to do it. Peaceful means is the best way and military ops is only the last resort.

thunderchief said:
Seriously , in campaigns like this , you would first need to eliminate Taiwan's air force and air defense . Then , you would had to eliminate most of the Taiwan's navy and coastal defense . Finally , you would have to soften Taiwanese army sufficiently to perform successful landings . All this things come in phases , and each phase requires time and resources .

Do you know how many missiles are targeted at Taiwan at this moment? It would not take a lot to cut off all communications on the island. Without effective communication, the defense on the island is paralyzed. the number of planes and ships does not matter. And don't forget, China will have all the time it needs to prepare for an invasion because China is the one starting it. It may as well spend 50 years gathering resources for an invasion. How much time does Taiwan have? The time from thousands of missile being launched to the time those thousands of missiles land...

thunderchief said:
There were some simulations of "limited" conflict between Soviet Union and US back in good old days of Cold War . They showed that loosing side could easily get tempted to use "few" tactical nuclear warheads . Other side then retaliates and before you know you get big bang .

All the better reason for both sides to stay away from nukes.

Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Skywatcher

Captain

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

Skywatcher

Captain

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King

joshuatree

Captain

Jeff Head

General

thunderchief

Senior Member

vesicles

Colonel

thunderchief

Senior Member

vesicles

Colonel