Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
Pending since 2006.
Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Gollevainen
- Start date
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
You re right.More on this too long issue for Taiwan:
Senators press jet sales to Taiwan
(AFP) – 5 hours ago
Hence, I still wonder why MA did not try to find out any other way, with europeans for instance.
Besides, more EU officials are pushing stronger ties (VISA agreements, commercial/free trade agreements, aso..) with Taiwan, given the fact that PRC is not the great diplomatic and economic partner they expected to have.
Otherwise I will soon think that MA is simply preparing for a soft reunification with mainland. Very bad news then.
I don't think its due to Ma secretly vying for reunification but more that that the KMT were incredibly short sighted and inept in their defence procurement strategy and unprepared for the possibility that the US would not sell them more fighter jets with no back up plan for this eventuality.
The only real option for new jets is to make them in Taiwan.......but that ain't going to happen. As for the VISA agreements and trade packs with European that is mostly due to the signing of the ECFA with China, at least that's what I've read. I still wish Taiwan would have accepted the military package offered by George Bush, sigh
MwRYum
Major
While the exact reason is different, both Europe and Taiwan are pinched by the US and China at the same time - while US stance is old news, China is "half new", that's because of China's finance muscle and they clearly not shy to flex it... in today's world you can't ignore China anymore even if you want to.
So, when stuck between a rock and a hard place, no matter who take office - KMT or otherwise - Taiwan can do little in their defense procurement strategy...unless either US make huge changes in the status quo of the matter, or Taiwan willing to go "North Korea" in making military the priority in everything and forfeit everything else, civil liberty included. Ok I know the 2nd one is BS by all counts but you know what I'm implying.
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
You have a good point, the emergence of China since the 1990s (when the last batch of F-16s were delivered) was a major external factor the ROC could do very little about like the situation now. But this deal was started off in 2006, by then it should have been clear that the PRC and the US had developed extremely lucrative and important trade relations. It was extremely naive for the DPP to look for a replacement for its F-5E fleet without sort of contingency plan incase the US tried to wiggle their way out of the 1946 Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty. One of the biggest victims of this whole mess is of course AIDC, who had their original IDF order cut from 256 to 130 in 1991 was devastating to the move for a modicum of self-sufficiency. Now AIDC is a shell of its former self and the foriegn powers who had previously sold arms to the island aren't willing to sell them more (other than refurbishments and supplies of existing Mirage 2000-5s and F-16A/Bs). To use the common idiom, Taiwan put the cart before the horse, ignoring local production (that would have tangible side benefits such as jobs, tax revenue, cross-sector expertise etc.) for foriegn aircraft. This whole F-16 debacle has been dragging on for over a half-decade, its about time SOMEBODY in Taipei realises that they can't just keep begging for F-16s and hope they'll get them.
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
I insist again... In the hands of the Chinese banker, USA is not in a good situation to support Taiwan anyhow. we will see in a decade. But now It is clear and a fact.
So, I wonder why MA still claims and falsely argues that americans will sell him a batch of F-16 C/D soon. It s clearly not the case after about 10 years! Sameissue with the Submarines needed.
And when taiwanese officials read such articles and see the facts (), they better have to find another partner for new military aircrafts! Clearly! TRA seems as suspended. IMHO.
So, I wonder why MA still claims and falsely argues that americans will sell him a batch of F-16 C/D soon. It s clearly not the case after about 10 years! Sameissue with the Submarines needed.
And when taiwanese officials read such articles and see the facts (), they better have to find another partner for new military aircrafts! Clearly! TRA seems as suspended.
IMHO.
MwRYum
Major
I insist again... In the hands of the Chinese banker, USA is not in a good situation to support Taiwan anyhow. we will see in a decade. But now It is clear and a fact.
So, I wonder why MA still claims and falsely argues that americans will sell him a batch of F-16 C/D soon. It s clearly not the case after about 10 years! Sameissue with the Submarines needed.
And when taiwanese officials read such articles and see the facts (), they better have to find another partner for new military aircrafts! Clearly! TRA seems as suspended.
This is the classic example of "inconvenient truth", but who could live with the consequence to tell the truth? It's political suicide for anyone who wants to take office.
And to look for "alternate source", what choice there is anyway? Only US, China, Russia and Europe have the full industrial base for their aviation industry, anybody else's have their core components rely on sources from those 4 places, and things that're military-grade have pretty strict export regulations concerning control on end users. That said, if you rule out US, whom can you choose as your "all-weather friend"? This is very important as it'd dictate the routes of a whole spectrum of future policies going to take, policies can't just for one term of office but several more.
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
I did not mean ruling out the USA. But if americans are not willing to sell advanced F-16 now, nor upgrading the F-16 A/B, it s high time, after 10 years, to put an alternative choice of new fighters. But MA is only claiming the same in front of journalists, every year. Will this president be able to take one good decision to balance the military forces in the Taiwan strait? Will it pend 5 more years or even more? Just wondering...
MwRYum
Major
Gauging by what China already undergoing and planning, compare with Taiwan's there's no balance anymore, unless Taiwan can come up with something "sci-fi"-ish that'd tip the balance around, or outsource military to the US.
And when everybody just looking at his/her term in office, who could come up with long-term plan that'll past the budget committee, or simply put, won't get them slaughtered at all fronts, political and media?
Also, what's more important is not just who you could choose, but who could honor the deal and deliver, on time and on budget? Ultimately when comes to engine you only have US, European and Russian manufacturers to choose from, avionics you can add Israeli as well (but as China already knew by now, US can intervene).
If nobody would do so (at least openly) you either "go black and underground" or make your own, core components parts included.
BTW, what choice does President Ma have anyway? If he admits the truth he'll be eaten whole and alive.
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
I also didn t mean balance in term of amount, of course, but of quality. See the lack of modern submarines, the aircrafts fleets. F-5 are useless and must be replaced by all means, F-16 A/B need overall upgrades. IDF and Mirage fleet (still good interceptors though), both need the same (avionics, radars and so on).
But if you think it s good to keep such a declining Army, up to you!
But if you think it s good to keep such a declining Army, up to you!