Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Skywatcher said:

Well, those two IDF C/D prototypes back in 2006 were new builds, weren't they?

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I think they are just upgrades.
Seriously, AIDC is lagging so far behind they might as well not exist. IDF was a promising design back in the days (with far inferior engines adapted from civilian aircraft) albeit with a lot of ideas "borrowed" from F-16. 30 years had past and all AIDC can do now is to add conformal fuel tanks and updated the avionics. It is still the same underpowered jet they were 20 years ago, now even slower and less agile due to the added weight of conformal fuel tanks.

SO, basically if Taiwan wants to Coop with Japan (most unlikely) what can AIDC bring to the table? "Oh we know how to construct conformal fuel tanks now. Took us 20 years! Oh and we know how to adapt some civilian computers for military avionics!".

Let's not forget Taiwan is regularly hit with the scandals of high ranking generals/colonels making trips to China and becomes "military advisers" for the PLA. Practically everything from technologies down to troop movement, strategies, secret base layouts are all known to the PLA by now. The running joke is PLA can even call out the names of soldiers serving in any units on the opposing side of the military base on the island.

Its any wonder American never sell any advanced weapon to Taiwan. All Taiwan received are either rejects, retiring, or "light" version weapon system. eg. ex-Knox-class frigate, ex-Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates, ex-Kidd class frigates, (These are not brand new, they are used and ready to be scrapped hulls)
The mentality for american is : hey let's just dump our rubbish to Taiwan and charge them exorbitant sum for it. Taiwan will never get Apache (got Cobra instead), will never get F-18/F-15 (got F-16 instead, after AIDC made IDF which is a inferior copy of F-16), will never get M1A1 (still using M60!!), wanted to get Ticonderoga-class or Arleigh Burke class but got bunch of ready to scrap ex-Knox-class frigate, ex-Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates, ex-Kidd class frigates instead......the list goes on and on and on.


Funny though, some Taiwanese politicians still think they can buy F-35s. LOL.

vesicles said:

Somehow, a lot of Taiwanese politicians have this mentality that they don't have to worry because the US will come to their rescue. This kind of mentality is displayed whenever these politicians talk about national defense on the island. While I understand that Taiwan thinks it is absolutely crucial to win the support from the US in a potential conflict with the Mainland, putting the safety of the island entirely in the hands of others would be a wrong move.

Yet, based on what they have been doing with AIDC and other domestic programs, it seems this is exactly what they are doing.

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Is it any wonder those politicians who thinks US will come to their rescue in time of crisis? Infact, that's the only logical conclusion they can come to - since Taiwan never get any substantial arms (read my previous post) to begin with, rarely get technology transfers (unlike the South Korean who get everything from Aegis, to F-16, F15, M1A1 etc etc...)... Taiwan's fate was sealed long time ago. In any type of conflict with China, Taiwan is not expect to win, nor repel the invader. As matter of fact, the current strategy seems to be to see how long Taiwan can last before "rescue" arrive.

Asymptote said:

Let's not forget Taiwan is regularly hit with the scandals of high ranking generals/colonels making trips to China and becomes "military advisers" for the PLA. Practically everything from technologies down to troop movement, strategies, secret base layouts are all known to the PLA by now.

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That is an assumption not based on any facts. The fact that some officers have been embroiled in spy scandals doesn't mean the PLA knows everything, or even lots, about all those things you mention. It may know a fair bit about something, but again the extent of what they know is a guess.

Its any wonder American never sell any advanced weapon to Taiwan.

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Err, Patriot-3, AIM-120C7, Apaches (yes, they are being sold), likely F-16 upgrades (at the least). The US isn't selling Aegis ships to Taiwan, but there's a question as to whether Taiwan would benefit from them given the distance between China and Taiwan. Indeed Taiwan doesn't need lots of expensive purchases, much of what it has bought over the past decade is quite useful. The P-3C Orions might not be "advanced" in as far that they're the most modern plane in the US' ASW arsenal, but they're incredibly effective and will more than do the job.

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Mr T said:

That is an assumption not based on any facts. The fact that some officers have been embroiled in spy scandals doesn't mean the PLA knows everything, or even lots, about all those things you mention. It may know a fair bit about something, but again the extent of what they know is a guess.

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LOL! Its not like just few of them went there, HEAPS of them went there. Making regular trips.

Err, Patriot-3, AIM-120C7, Apaches (yes, they are being sold), likely F-16 upgrades (at the least). The US isn't selling Aegis ships to Taiwan, but there's a question as to whether Taiwan would benefit from them given the distance between China and Taiwan. Indeed Taiwan doesn't need lots of expensive purchases, much of what it has bought over the past decade is quite useful. The P-3C Orions might not be "advanced" in as far that they're the most modern plane in the US' ASW arsenal, but they're incredibly effective and will more than do the job.

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PAC-3 has very limited ballistic missile defence - if at all. Not sure about AIM-120 but IDF and Mirage are aging systems so how effective AIM-120 is on these aging system I don't know.

Now, Apache must be a joke. WHERE ARE THEY? The deal must have went through more than 3 years ago. THREE YEARS AGO. And guess what? No Apache in Taiwan as of now. LOL! Either Taiwanese government IMAGINED they purchased Apache, and gave the money away, or the deal never went through.
Seriously its some LOL stuff.

kliu0 said:

I don't write on here much anymore... but you might want to calm down...

Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates - Taiwan self-built and still in service in the US

The above arms you mentioned were sold to Taiwan 20 years ago...

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Well, you tell me, what are the main weapon systems in Taiwan's arsenals that's new?
Compare to the South Korean who got F-15K (with full TOT and they making it locally), KF-16 (F-16 built in SK), K1A1 (M1A1 variant with full ToT from American and produced locally), KDX-III (again, full ToT locally produced Aegis missile frigate), Taiwan is got nothing.

Asymptote said:

LOL! Its not like just few of them went there, HEAPS of them went there. Making regular trips.

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And how do you know what they had access to and indeed allowed China to access? Can you list the key documents transferred?

PAC-3 has very limited ballistic missile defence - if at all. Not sure about AIM-120 but IDF and Mirage are aging systems so how effective AIM-120 is on these aging system I don't know.

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What do you mean that PAC-3 has limited ballistic missile defence? That's what it's designed to counter-act!

AIM-120s on the IDF and Mirages? What are you talking about, they're for the F-16s.

Now, Apache must be a joke. WHERE ARE THEY? The deal must have went through more than 3 years ago. THREE YEARS AGO. And guess what? No Apache in Taiwan as of now.

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You really don't have a clue, do you? Purchasing arms from the US is not a question of popping over to Walmart and picking things off the shelf.

All that happened less than three years ago (October 2008) was that Congress was sent a notification of a potential sale. This stage usually shows the US has decided to sell something to Taiwan and that the sale is going ahead, which is why China causes a fuss then. But the exact price and composition of the purchase has to be subsequently agreed. The US won't start taking things out, but Taiwan may want to reduce quantities or stage purchases over a few years.

Next a contact has to be signed between the US Department of Defense and the manufacturer(s). This then goes into their production line. They don't bump their existing work to the back of the queue.

The congressional notification for the P-3C Orions was made in 2007, but deliveries won't start until next year. Similarly production of the Apaches is expected to finish sometime in late 2013 and be delivered in 2014.

It seems like you really do not know what you are talking about on this subject. Go read up on it (you know, look at newspapers and the like) before you embarrass yourself further.

Mr T said:

What do you mean that PAC-3 has limited ballistic missile defence? That's what it's designed to counter-act!

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The PAC-3 can hit SRBMs at their terminal phase (maybe some older MRBMS/IRBMs too). That the NSC is blowing vapors about the new 'DF-16' suggests that new longer ranged PRC missiles go too fast for the PAC-3 or the TK-3 to hit it.

Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates - Taiwan self-built and still in service in the US

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What? Name one ship built in Taiwan and serving in the US. I think you meant Knox class FFs. Taiwan had 8 Knox class FFs that they re-built. These frigates were renamed the Chi Yang Class & none is in service in the USN.

As for OHP class the ROCN has eight called the Cheng Kung class.

Now..they do have 4 Kidd class DDGs.

bd popeye said:

What? Name one ship built in Taiwan and serving in the US.

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I think he was referring to the OHP class being still in service in the US. He wasn't implying that Taiwan has built ships for the US Navy.