Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

MwRYum · Apr 7, 2011

Aero_Wing_32 said:
What do you know about the Mirage deal? Then give facts and figures... You re not allowed to say whatever you want on this board. Watch out for that.

Now don't insult my intelligence on something anyone can google up in less that 5 minutes. If you want to defend Taiwan's image you've to do far better than that.

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Unless you totally forgot this scandal that surround the La Fayette frigate deal, including the murder of a navel officer related to this?

Aero_Wing_32 · Apr 7, 2011

MwRYum said:
Now don't insult my intelligence on something anyone can google up in less that 5 minutes. If you want to defend Taiwan's image you've to do far better than that.

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Unless you totally forgot this scandal that surround the La Fayette frigate deal, including the murder of a navel officer related to this?

This is a scandal that occured in the past, around 20 years ago. Does it still block major french industrial companies in the ROC? Not at all, Sir!

There re plenty of others spying/bribery cases involving US, even China. I see, your memory just recovers...

You want to say something about the Mirage deal? You ve names? Clever or not, what I see is that you compare apples with oranges... And I don t know who you re, a chicom or anti-french US lobbyist, I don t care.

Just be cautious about what you say in the future, you re not so invisble on the web. You can insinuate things, but you can also be sued by spreading/posting false allegations in a board.

Skywatcher · Apr 7, 2011

Aero_Wing_32 said:
You should update your old press agencies News... These are really old News, just chinese intents for most of them. Left wing also insists that for most part, these dozen of billions ve been never signed out with chinese, or just for a few part of them. Note that even nuclear deals are now under re-evaluation, concerning only 2 EPR plants indeed.

OK you re right about the planes, but I repeat that EADS is a European firm, not a french one!

Last & not least, France reported today a still rising trade deficit... and very bad results for the military sector, and also declining sales announced this year for French Aerospace Industries Association.

I do trust that France can resume military deals with Taiwan. Sooner or later, and in the same context we ve seen in the 90s. But with Sarkozy heading, I doubt it. Same about the USA with Obama as President...

2010 and 2011 counts as pretty recent news. Or are you time traveling from 2015?

Please provide proof that such deals haven't been signed (the articles specifically said they had, hence the onus is on you to supply proof for such tall claims).

So France is facing a trade deficit, especially in military exports. Would be such a shame if the PRC started underbidding every bid the French competed for (that will at least squeeze their profit margins and increase the amount of bribes they need to pay to win).

EADS may not be completely French owned, but it is a major French employer. Otherwise why would Sarkozy be crying foul about the USAF tanker contract?

And how the heck is Taiwan going to cough up money for the French fighters? The Rafale is much more expensive than the latest F-16 block and about as capable at best.

Aero_Wing_32 · Apr 7, 2011

Skywatcher said:
2010 and 2011 counts as pretty recent news. Or are you time traveling from 2015?

Please provide proof that such deals haven't been signed (the articles specifically said they had, hence the onus is on you to supply proof for such tall claims).

So France is facing a trade deficit, especially in military exports. Would be such a shame if the PRC started underbidding every bid the French competed for (that will at least squeeze their profit margins and increase the amount of bribes they need to pay to win).

EADS may not be completely French owned, but it is a major French employer. Otherwise why would Sarkozy be crying foul about the USAF tanker contract?

And how the heck is Taiwan going to cough up money for the French fighters? The Rafale is much more expensive than the latest F-16 block and about as capable at best.

Don t you think that you exagerate a little bit too much? A Rafale F3 is a multirole fighter, gen 4+, with twin engine, more advanced than a F-16 C/D, and of course cost more than this american plane, thanks God I dare say! US lobbyists, numerous in Taipei, claimed they re so cheap, but when USA forget to defend taiwanese interests, the virtual cheapest planes become expensive through the eyes of ROC democracy...

Skywatcher · Apr 7, 2011

Aero_Wing_32 said:
Don t you think that you exagerate a little bit too much? A Rafale F3 is a multirole fighter, gen 4+, with twin engine, more advanced than a F-16 C/D, and of course cost more than this american plane, thanks God I dare say! US lobbyists, numerous in Taipei, claimed they re so cheap, but when USA forget to defend taiwanese interests, the virtual cheapest planes become expensive through the eyes of ROC democracy...

More advanced??!!! May I introduce the F-16E/F "Desert Falcon".

The Rafale C costs $80 million dollars for the fly away cost of the plane itself. It doesn't even have an operational AESA yet (if you gave the ROCAF a choice between a proven Northrup Grumman radar and an unfielded French one, guess which they would take?).

In contrast, F-16E/F costs about $40-60million per plane at flyaway. It's AN/APG-60 AESA radar has been in service for over seven years now and has performed admirably (a bird in hand is worth three in the nest).

Speed for both fighters are the same (they're certainly within the same weight class), with CFT the F-16E/F's range is about the same. You get American air to air missiles, ECM and ground attack munitions with the F-16. And the Rafale has... twin engines (which really doesn't matter because it's not like Taiwan thinks P&W engines are unsafe). Or if the ROCN wants to build a carrier...

Maybe the American lobbyists conspired to make a better, more cost effective plane?

Aero_Wing_32 · Apr 7, 2011

Skywatcher said:
More advanced??!!! May I introduce the F-16E/F "Desert Falcon".

The Rafale C costs $80 million dollars for the fly away cost of the plane itself. It doesn't even have an operational AESA yet (if you gave the ROCAF a choice between a proven Northrup Grumman radar and an unfielded French one, guess which they would take?).

In contrast, F-16E/F costs about $40-60million per plane at flyaway. It's AN/APG-60 AESA radar has been in service for over seven years now and has performed admirably (a bird in hand is worth three in the nest).

Speed for both fighters are the same (they're certainly within the same weight class), with CFT the F-16E/F's range is about the same. You get American air to air missiles, ECM and ground attack munitions with the F-16. And the Rafale has... twin engines (which really doesn't matter because it's not like Taiwan thinks P&W engines are unsafe). Or if the ROCN wants to build a carrier...

Maybe the American lobbyists conspired to make a better, more cost effective plane?

From what I know, your so-good F-16 E/F did not impressed that much Arabian Emirates recently... neither in front of Mirage 2k9 nor the Rafale F3 squadrons which faced the F-22 directly. You can use your fanboy behaviour to express your support for US fighters, but french have the guts to face them. Live with that.

Back to the topic if you don t mind.

Skywatcher · Apr 7, 2011

Aero_Wing_32 said:
From what I know, your so-good F-16 E/F did not impressed that much Arabian Emirates recently... neither in front of Mirage 2k9 nor the rafale F3 squadrons who faced the F-22 directly. You can use your fanboy behaviour to express your support for US fighters, but french have the guts to face them. Live with that.

Back to the topic if you don t mind.

Please present proof, fanboi.

MwRYum · Apr 7, 2011

Aero_Wing_32 said:
This is a scandal that occured in the past, around 20 years ago. Does it still block major french industrial companies in the ROC? Not at all, Sir!

There re plenty of others spying/bribery cases involving US, even China. I see, your memory just recovers...

You want to say something about the Mirage deal? You ve names? Clever or not, what I see is that you compare apples with oranges... And I don t know who you re, a chicom or anti-french US lobbyist, I don t care.

Just be cautious about what you say in the future, you re not so invisble on the web. You can insinuate things, but you can also be sued by spreading/posting false allegations in a board.

When I talk about the scandal I'm talking about La Fayette, NOT the Mirage, and even if there's no more hassle in that end, the media is all too happy to turn it too hot a topic making objective proposals impossible, just think about the drama when the defense department have to request for budgetat the parliment...

And one more thing little boy, you won't get much respect here if you carry the kind of mentality and attitude that's so common in Chinese & Taiwan BBS sites - those are for savages and uneducated - to here. So please think twice before taunting and cheaper still, rattling sabre over here again. Amusing yes, but useless.

Edit: Yes, unlike some, I walk my talk, so let me post those 2 little notes Aero_Wing_32 thrown at me...

no journalists rumors here please
Hi,

I am closed to some french/taiwanese industrial matters as you can imagine...

A discussion board is not used to spread non verified rumors or jounalists oriented articles... understood?

What we know is that some Taiwanese military officials ve been revoked and jailed in the past years (dozen sentenced from 2009 to 2010). They were involved in some bribery cases, most with the USA. That s the fact.

So, watch out about what you say here. You re not allowed to say whatever you want about the Mirage deal in the 90s.

Regards.

That was yesterday.

This is today...

gonna be forwarded
Don t play bad with things you dont know pal.

continue like this and I will forward your insinuations to some executive/official friends, french, working in some military industries with ties in Taipei.

They will be interested.

Rgds.

再见

Play on your little fantasy, kid. Or you should start to walk your talk, if you want people to take you seriously.

T-U-P · Apr 8, 2011

Alright guys, chill for a bit, no more name calling please. We want professional discussions here, so if you have factual evidence to back up your claim, then bring it up. Also please realize that there is no absolute right or absolute wrong in a proper debate.

-TUP

Aero_Wing_32 · Apr 8, 2011

MwRYum said:
When I talk about the scandal I'm talking about La Fayette, NOT the Mirage, and even if there's no more hassle in that end, the media is all too happy to turn it too hot a topic making objective proposals impossible, just think about the drama when the defense department have to request for budgetat the parliment...

And one more thing little boy, you won't get much respect here if you carry the kind of mentality and attitude that's so common in Chinese & Taiwan BBS sites - those are for savages and uneducated - to here. So please think twice before taunting and cheaper still, rattling sabre over here again. Amusing yes, but useless.

Edit: Yes, unlike some, I walk my talk, so let me post those 2 little notes Aero_Wing_32 thrown at me...

That was yesterday.

This is today...

Play on your little fantasy, kid. Or you should start to walk your talk, if you want people to take you seriously.

And the guy continues... I m not that rude with you, but should you did not insult me like this again, please? You attacked the Mirage deal without any evidence. Who are you to dirty people or some european military companies like this? Just moderate your words the next time you speak about a subject you don t know.

Now like I said before, it s high time to go back to the origins of this interesting topic.

Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

MwRYum

Major

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member

Skywatcher

Captain

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member

Skywatcher

Captain

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member

Skywatcher

Captain

MwRYum

Major

T-U-P

The Punisher

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member