Taiwan "Han Kuang" exercises

Using the terrain to regain the initiative
In the end, the two forces fought bloody battles at the plains of Gaundu, Chongli (Jungli?), and the Dadu mountain areas, with the help of terrain advantages our forces were finally able to repel the Liberation Forces and regain the initiative.

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Nice, very nice.

Up until this part everything went well for the PLA. Then all of a sudden, all the PLA forces on Taiwan lost when they fought here. Very nice indeed.

What I'm even more amazed at is how he just vaguely says "Due to terrain advantages, we won".

What the heck does that mean???

I was wondering the same thing myself while I was translating. Unfortunately the article does not go into further detail regarding this, but I'll try to cash in my two cents on it.

I'm not that familiar with the plains of Guandu and Chongli so I can't comment on that, but I've biked all over Dadu, and from my (admittably untrained) eye I'd say that it would be a pain in the ass for an invading force to fight on, it's very hard to advance unless you used an air strike to flush out artillery and tanks stationed on the high ground. You can get a good clear view of the area around the Dadu mountain area (not to mention a clear line of fire) but it's not easy to spot those that are on top. In the scenario depicted I was led to believe that the ROCAF was still operational, at the very least not giving PLA forces a free reign for calling in airstrikes.

As the article does not elaborate further on the numbers involved sadly to say I can't really do more but speculate on how it might have helped repel the Chinese forces. Taking everything into account, I don't think that the invading force was at full-strength at that point, and perhaps ammo and rations were running low. (Although only a few days had passed)

Anyway, that's just my take on it. Obviously the ROC isn't going to release a really detailed report on battle tactics anytime soon, so I guess we'll have to make do with what we have.

Zergling, since you live in Taiwan, or at least have lived there, can you answer my question about costal fortifications? I've looked in a lot of places, but I haven't been able to find anything about them. I guess that means they don't exsist, but I just can't believe that the ROC wouldn't build them. I mean, you know that its coming right, so why not take away the easiest spots?

I didn't miss your question, but honestly I haven't spent any time in the possible landing spots on the mainland. (Here mainland refers to Taiwan, as opposed to the outlying islands) So I'm not sure how well the fortifications there are.

Now, Kinmen has those barriers like you'd see in Normandy, as well as (clearly marked from the interior) minefields. There are also various anti-ship artillery batteries situated in various locations near the island-encompassing road network as well.

Penghu on the other hand has little if any physical defenses, for now it's a tourist trap, with places to waterski, surf, and what not. There was indeed a military garrison there, but overall I'd say there wasn't any noticeable military presence there. Then again, I didn't go to all the islands last summer, just the main one with the airport as well as another one with some pretty landmarks.

On a side note, I'm heading back to Taiwan on the 17th, planning on roaming around now that I've got a scooter, and if I get some more stuff on coastal defenses and what not, I'll let you know.

I never said that. I said that Taiwanese capabilities is easier to predict because it us based on a western military. It is not illogical to conclude that Taiwanese military capabilities are within the range of a Western military of approximately equal size. The PLA however is not based on Western militaries, and cannot be compared directly to western militaries. Also, Western weaponry have been used in recent wars, so we have a general idea of how well they work. Chinese weapons are untested. In my opinion, since no one knows the capabilities of China's military, one can neither say the PLA would crush the ROC forces nor say that the ROC could decimate the PLA's invasion forces.

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Thats not the logic to use to compare potential capapilityes of the two nations. Being western with doctrinal level usually means that Taiwan is relying much more to the actuall innovativity of its troops, improvisation and tactical flexibility, charectaristic to all western militaryes, where PRC is more known of its stiffneccked textbook doctrine following till death -methods. And no weapon just does the job when you pull the switch...you must know how to use them. Their capapilityes just adds pros or cons to the overal result, but it is the people who use them that makes the difference. Old weapon can still do its old job, and if the crew has learned new tricks, it can prove unexpectevly suprising how much simple looking of weapon charts and data can misslead.

I found an additional article regarding it, so like the nice guy I am I'll translate it. (It's a lot easier than translating Simplified, anyway)

Sorry about some strange grammar... I'm kinda tired.


蘋果日報2006年5月7日
漢光演習 Ｆ16越洋參戰
空中加油飛2萬公里 48小時抵台

Apple Daily May 7, 2006
HanKuang Exercise - F-16s cross Pacific to participate
20,000 KM trip with mid-air refueling - arriving at Taiwan within 48 hours

【朱明╱台北報導】將在7月於宜蘭登場的國軍漢光22號演習實兵操演，空軍將首次命令在美國亞利桑那州路克（LUKE）空軍基地受訓的Ｆ16戰機，在48小時之內，從美國透過空中加油等方式，飛越2萬多公里，趕回台灣參與實兵演習。

For the upcoming HK22 exercise in Ilan, the Air Force will transfer our F-16s from Luke AFB, USA, flying the 20,000 KM trip with mid-air refueling in time to participate in the exercise.

超級任務
軍方人士透露，這項計劃除了考驗Ｆ16戰機飛行員跨洋作戰能力，並獲取所需要數據外，最重要是模擬在台海發生戰事後，美軍空中支援台灣時，我方如何開闢空中安全走廊讓戰機與運輸物質進入。

Military representatives stated that in addition to evaluating the ability of F-16 pilots (in regards to crossing the ocean) and acquire the needed stats, most importantly the exercise was to simulate a potential Taiwan Strait situation in which our side would have to figure out how ot transport materials into Taiwan.

中途停關島夏威夷
空軍官員證實，剛結束的漢光電腦兵推，空軍確實有「遠程支援」推演，至於實兵演練則不清楚。軍方人士指出，2萬多公里的跨洋飛行若不落地要7、8次的空中加油，我國空軍並沒有空中加油機，須美方協助，加上考慮在夏威夷、關島美軍基地落地加油休息，因此空軍日前已向美方提出，希望美方在空中加油與地面設施提供協助。
空軍目前在路克基地有14架Ｆ16戰機，編在21中隊在美訓練，作戰處規劃跨洋返台作戰是以「遠程支援」為代號，計劃兩架雙座的Ｆ16戰機執行任務。
戰機將由路克基地出發往西飛，飛越美國加州領空進入太平洋，以平均800公里的時速先到夏威夷落地，稍作休息後再飛到關島美軍基地加油，再朝北飛經日本琉球空域後，轉向進入台灣北部空域，在實兵操演當天，飛抵宜蘭演習上空。
空軍官員表示，跨洋飛行一飛就超過8小時，所以飛行員除了要帶營養食品，最重要的是尿袋，因為飛行中吃喝拉都要在狹小的座艙內，跨洋飛行對飛行員的體力耐力都是相當大考驗。

Midway stop at Hawaii, Guam
Military representatives also stated that in the recently completed HK computer simulations, the Air Force did indeed simulate "long range support", but hadn't tried it in real life yet. A non-stop flight across the Pacific would take 7 to 8 mid-air refuelings, as the ROCAF does not have any tankers, we would require American assistance, also contemplating resting at Hawaii and Guam.

Currently the Air Force has 14 F-16s from the 21st FS training at Luke AFB, the exercise dubbed "Long range backup" will be composed of 2 double-seater F-16s. They will head West from Luke AFB, overflying California into the Pacific, averaging 800 KMPH first landing at Hawaii, after a short rest they will then proceed to Guam. Afterwards heading North overflying Okinawa, will then enter Taiwan's northern airspace, on the day of the exercise arriving over the skies of Ilan.

Air Force representatives stated the flight would take over 8 hours, so in addition to vital nutrients, most importantly the pilots would need to prepare urine sacks. Because everything must be done in the cramped cockpit, the cross-Pacific flight will be a important test of the pilot's stamina.

模擬美軍空中支援
該名官員表示，Ｆ16戰機在1997年以跨洋飛行到台灣交機，空軍只有少數飛行員在美國機師的陪同下，有跨洋飛行經驗。這次計劃就是希望透過實兵演練，來瞭解調動空軍在美的唯一部隊，需多少時間才能投入戰場。
軍方人士並指出，戰機由琉球空域進入台灣北部領空，就是模擬美軍介入台海爭端，空中支援進入。戰管單位必須協調其他參演飛機與軍艦，開闢空中安全走廊，從這次實際運作瞭解其可行性。

Simulating American air support
The forementioned military official stated, F-16s crossed the Pacific in 1997 when completing the purchase, however only a few Air Force pilots had the cross-Pacific experience. This exercise intends to find out how long it would take to deploy our (only) squadron based in the States.

Having the aircraft enter the Taiwan straits from Okinawa is essentially simulating American intervention from Okinawa, the military must coordinate all participating aircraft and cruisers to create a safe passageways, this exercise is a test in its plausibility.

Humph....

I find it very curious that some of the same people, who shall go nameless, that think that wargames that come out in favor of the PLA side are great but those that go against it are ridiulous. Interesting.

That's ok..just keep posting away!

Golly posted..

Thats what I have wondered ever since I joined the forum...
Kids are more familiar whit computer games where you can have better things than your opponent and as the computer does the fighting, offcourse the one whit more and better things wins as the computer inteligence automaticly just counts the pros and cons and makes decissions based on that.

And these kids then comes to military forums and automaticly assume that real life and real combat works that ways as only wars they are familiar are the TV events of US kicking some third world ass in prime time, where things seems to work like in Computer games

But in the end, that has really little to do whit reality and expecially in imaginary 'what if' match ups between two non-superpower nations whit armed forces

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I agree. I've stated it before and will again...The bottom line is a wargame is just that..a game. The real proof would be on a battlefeild.

And oh by the way..war sucks...

bd popeye said:

Humph....

I find it very curious that some of the same people, who shall go nameless, that think that wargames that come out in favor of the PLA side are great but those that go against it are ridiulous. Interesting.

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Lol, well said, popeye. Of course such attitudes are completely hypocritical. But it's because they want to believe that the PLA is a wonderful, all-invincible force that will crush Taiwan in an instant. So if anything says that it might get its arse kicked, then obviously it has to be a lie. :rofl:

Personally I think war games can only ever be useful if they show the deficiencies in your own side, which is why I think the "Han Kuang" ones were useful in indicating those potential communication problems.

China are either invisible or could win hand down with Taiwan, as much as many efforts had been make in modernization in PLA. Taiwan is still hold many advantages especially in C4, also a defensive force always enjoy more advantages. So eventhrough China had surpass Taiwan in many areas, when it came in real conflict. There are no gurantee that China could win. But I do think that the conflict between China and Taiwan would be breif, China do understand that they have better chance by using overwhelming forces to crush Taiwan in an instant. Or else they need to fight or delay a much more powerful military interfere. But one thing I find even more hypocritical is that some people always think China as a threat and tried to make a big fuss about it, but when it come to China military power they think China is nothing or weakling and unable to do a thing. Funny is it .

Popeye, i don't mean you of course.

well speaking from experience, the most important factor of wargames id to give some idea to the actual troops, how it is to figth in the 'realistic' operation. And this I mostly mean, what it is to work on part of a battalion, regiment, division and even army corps. In normal field training, its usually battalion level organisations where the battalion provides the support and replenishment, that comes directly from the garrison's big support echelon. its completely different to do the same thing when the battalion is 'feed' from the regiment/brigade and do that same time when the actuall bigger organisation is manouvering.
However, usually people tend to see the political or strategical objectives of the wargames, and forgot that the main task is to sharpen the tactical elements of the participating units. Wheter they reviel some mistakes or not, isent that relevant. its good and best opportunity to test some new methods, but it isent the sole purpose of these rehershals, nor is the political "I have 700$, so dont you mess whit me" stuff

But then some unavoidaple Gollevainen's artillery bed time storyes volume XXVII...
In realistic wargames, the artillery task is rather lame if they wont be able to fire live. After our main firingcamp, we had to take part of the main annual finnish army's wargames which we called "end-war". It was frustrating as hell as we just sitted on our arses all the time and moved around during night-time. We were merely statistics and everytime the officers came and told us how the "war" was going, we couldn't care less...the only exiting event was when after lying around about 6 hours in billbox, suddenly a "enemy" patrol attacked to my position. I managed to fire one clip of blanks empty before the trainers said i was dead...but managed to "kill" almoust the whole "enemy" patrol...And i become the sole guy in my platoon to get this kind of "action"