I said a fleet of transport subs and each one holds no more than 4 to 5 tanks.
strategic value of having a fleet of tank/troop transport subs.
- Thread starter tidalwave
- Start date
I said a fleet of transport subs and each one holds no more than 4 to 5 tanks.
It's a surprise landing and invasion. They will get discovered once they hit the beach.
Then the long range rockets, missiles, SAMs or even stealth bombers if they got them at that time to suppress enemy defense network to provide coverage for the landing infrantry.
Its worth it even if 's cost more. It's only a one time deal if successful.
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vesicles
Colonel
So the missiles and bombers will hit the beach after their troops land on the beach?! This way, you can kill your enemies along with your own troops?! Is that the goal?
It's supposed to be the most straightforward thing: fire missiles to wipe out enemy facilities and infrastructures, deploy your stealth fighters and stealth bombers to eliminate enemy detection; deploy stealth and other advanced fighters to gain air superiority, send in bombers to eliminate enemy defense, then send in troops. Why make it so complicated?
Then enemy would know you are attacking, and first thing they do is prevent landing. They will swarm the beach area.
I still prefer until the stealth landing initiated and firing only after being discovered.
vesicles
Colonel
Your preferred landing method is sending your troops into a fully armed and fully armored enemy territory. As soon as your stealth sub leaves your camp, you lose control over the entire situation. this may work for elite units like the spec ops with a very specific and small scale mission, but mass troops don't have the training and equipment to pull it off. It's easy to conceal a small unit of 12-20 spec ops specialists. It's impossible to hide a unit of hundreds. They will be discovered and they will be left vulnerable and completely exposed. Just imagine your troops begin to come out of the stealthy sub. Their bodies will light up like Christmas trees in enemy heat-sensing detectors and scopes.
Let's assume everything goes as planned. Your troops manage to stay stealthy and land successfully. And they open fire at the most opportune moment. What's next? How do your troops stay alive long enough for your air support to show up? You have exposed human flesh vs. hardened bunkers and machine guns... which side will last longer?
Keep in mind that enemy coastal defense has been designed to annihilate amphibious landing exactly as you are doing. Your troops would be completely exposed. And your air support is still miles away. You are literally using your weakest element to face the strongest element of your enemy.
Even if your troops manage to stay alive amid various kinds of enemy coastal defense, what happens when your air support arrives? Now, your troops and enemy troops are all on the beach. Your missiles and bombs will hit your enemy as well as your own troops.
Even under the best case scenario, your missiles miss your troops and manage to hit only enemy. Your troops have suffered enough casualties. The whole mission has turned into a rescue mission from an invasion.
Not sure if you have noticed, but the whole strategy of landing troops first on the beach is based on the mentality of human wave. Using your men as the first wave to face the grunt of enemy teeth and claws is simply another version of the human wave tactic. It simply does not work.
The safest way is to eliminate your enemy defense first. Yes, your enemy will know you are coming. So what? If you do a good job of cleaning up the enemy defense, they would be toothless and clawless. They would be completely defenseless. There would be absolutely nothing that they can do. You can take your time and walk onto the beach with ease.
If you cannot manage to eliminate enemy defense, then you are not ready to land troops yet. Landing your troops with your enemy's defense still intact is simply irresponsible. Putting the lives of your soldiers at danger unnecessarily is irresponsible.
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Those subs, if they are going to carry many soldiers, tanks, and equipment are going to be big. They themselves would then have to surface well off shore and offload that equipment.
In my book, "Dragon's Fury: World War against America and the West." in the latter stages the US developed 40,000 ton subs like this.
They had a whole task force of them. Some subs for troops and equipment. Some subs for air support. Using Ohio class SSGNs for fire support with massive numbers of VLS, and then Block V Virginia SSNs to protect the entire group.
But that whole group would surface off shore and then go into an attack mode just like current US Navy MEUs and ARGs do.
The Amphib Assault version looked like this that could launch LCACs (through well-deck bay doors on either side of the sub), helicopter and MV-22 air assault on the landing spots on decks with a hangar underneath, and could also carry a small squadron of F-35Bs and EV-22 Ospreys
The carrier version has two elevators, two catapaults, and an aft landing spot. They could launch aircraft like the F-35 from the cat, or have them do short runs, or have them take off vertcally. They carried a mixed airwing including EV-22 Osprey AEW aircraft, SV-22 Osprey anti-submarine aircraft, and F-35B/C stealth strike fighters. They had a strong APAR system, and also had two 32 cell Mk-41 VLS systems
In the book, each of these submarines displaced over 40,000 tons.
...and a whole Submersible ARG:
We actually have a thread about all of this and more:
Future Aircraft Carrier Designs
In my book, "Dragon's Fury: World War against America and the West." in the latter stages the US developed 40,000 ton subs like this.
They had a whole task force of them. Some subs for troops and equipment. Some subs for air support. Using Ohio class SSGNs for fire support with massive numbers of VLS, and then Block V Virginia SSNs to protect the entire group.
But that whole group would surface off shore and then go into an attack mode just like current US Navy MEUs and ARGs do.
The Amphib Assault version looked like this that could launch LCACs (through well-deck bay doors on either side of the sub), helicopter and MV-22 air assault on the landing spots on decks with a hangar underneath, and could also carry a small squadron of F-35Bs and EV-22 Ospreys
The carrier version has two elevators, two catapaults, and an aft landing spot. They could launch aircraft like the F-35 from the cat, or have them do short runs, or have them take off vertcally. They carried a mixed airwing including EV-22 Osprey AEW aircraft, SV-22 Osprey anti-submarine aircraft, and F-35B/C stealth strike fighters. They had a strong APAR system, and also had two 32 cell Mk-41 VLS systems
In the book, each of these submarines displaced over 40,000 tons.
...and a whole Submersible ARG:
We actually have a thread about all of this and more:
Future Aircraft Carrier Designs
kwaigonegin
Colonel
No offense but me thinks you boys watch waaay to much Hollywood movies and/r cartoons
The days of Normandy type landings are over. No different than the Atlantic wall concept built by hitler.
Air supremacy will be the order of the day. Until that is achieve no one will be landing en masse on any beachhead. The only exception is spec ops to sabotage infrastructure or targeting HVTs prior to air attacks but they won't come in full tactical LOL that's jus dumb. You know how spec ops will enter Taiwan? They will come in dress in business suits flying commercial! Days/weeks before!
They will be no 'surprise' invasion of Taiwan if that ever time comes lol. It will be known! But all that aside in my honest opinion I don't think such scenario is likely in the forseeable future. I just don't think China will take over by extreme military force.
The days of Normandy type landings are over. No different than the Atlantic wall concept built by hitler.
Air supremacy will be the order of the day. Until that is achieve no one will be landing en masse on any beachhead. The only exception is spec ops to sabotage infrastructure or targeting HVTs prior to air attacks but they won't come in full tactical LOL that's jus dumb. You know how spec ops will enter Taiwan? They will come in dress in business suits flying commercial! Days/weeks before!
They will be no 'surprise' invasion of Taiwan if that ever time comes lol. It will be known! But all that aside in my honest opinion I don't think such scenario is likely in the forseeable future. I just don't think China will take over by extreme military force.
Amen to every bit of that.
But in my fictional novel story, after several years of hard fighting in a modern war environment, can you imagine eight or nine large 40,000 ton large stealthy subs surface 20 miles off of ANY coastline, unannounced.
Two of them start launching 2-3 fighers, AEW aircraft, attack aircraft, etc, aircraft every couple of minutes, while four of them launch LCACs and LCUs out of well deck doors built into their sides. and two more launch air assault with helos stored in their hangers?.
Three others, with full AEGIS capabilities and 20 large modules carrying seven large VLS each filled with Standard and ESSM missiles defend the skies along with the arcraft being launched...and OBTW, those vessels also have popup Laser Weapon Systems and CIWS Rail Guns?
In the mean time, 3-4 SSNs protect them from subsurface and surface threats.
That would be an awesome Amphibious Assault group right there.
Anyhow, it was a fun thing to analyze and write about, using the old Harpoon III system to game it all out.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
As kwaigonegin suggests there will be no mass landing until you gained air superiority. Without it fleets of large sub cross a body of water will become target practice since it would largely disrupt the magnetic field in which even the simplest of fishing radar will capture and if you had already gained air superiority then there is no need to go under water in the first place.
These re stealth subs, and their operations in terms of their formation were set up to account for these issues.
In addition, the Aircraft carrying subs, with their large wing of stealth fighters were there to establish the air supremacy before the landings started.
Anyhow...hehehe...it was a fictional novel, and a fictional novel is called fiction for a good reason...even if you do use existing and near term technologies to establish plausible ways to accomplish what you want in the story.