South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
Did the Aussies prearrange a "FON" flight over China's islands in the SCS with Beijing?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Australian military is carrying out "freedom of navigation" flights over disputed islands in the South China Sea, the BBC has uncovered.

The US insists on its right to make such flights and B-52 bombers flew over the area last month, angering China.

In a recent civilian flight, a BBC team intercepted radio communications showing the Australian military is also operating such flights in the area.

Australia's defence department confirmed the flights to the BBC.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


In a statement, the Department of Defence said one of its P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft was carrying out what it called "a routine maritime patrol" as part of its efforts to maintain regional security and stability in the region.

"China navy China navy we are an Australian aircraft exercising international freedom of navigation rights, in international airspace in accordance with the international civil aviation convention, and the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - over," said a message heard by the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes while on board a Philippines civilian aircraft.

China is locked in territorial disputes in the South China Sea. It claims large swathes of the South China Sea - an area defined by the "nine-dash line". Vietnam and the Philippines have both contested this claim.

China's foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei said: "Freedom of navigation in the South China Sea is not a problem. Countries outside of this area should respect other countries' sovereignty and not deliberately make trouble."

The disputed Spratly Islands are regarded as one of the potential geopolitical flashpoints of the 21st Century, our correspondents say.

China has been using land reclamation to expand islands and is building runways on them, sparking outrage from its neighbours. The US has warned China to stop all land reclamation activity.
Click to expand...
 
SamuraiBlue

SamuraiBlue

Captain
This is the result from the PRC's move into the region.


Don't tell me that nature is going to revive in another decade or two because coral can only grow about once to two centimeter a year.
 
Z

z117

New Member
SamuraiBlue said:
This is the result from the PRC's move into the region.


Don't tell me that nature is going to revive in another decade or two because coral can only grow about once to two centimeter a year.
Click to expand...

Are you going to pretend that other SEA countries have been any more considerate to the environment in their pursuit in the name of national interest? Are you going to pretend that despite all the international spot light on China's pollution that it is not worse in in Indonesia/Philippines/Vietnam?

Do you really want to play the concerned environmentalist card behind thinly veiled racism against fellow Asians when Japan is busy butchering whales by the hundreds every years?

Don't go there.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
SamuraiBlue said:
This is the result from the PRC's move into the region.


Don't tell me that nature is going to revive in another decade or two because coral can only grow about once to two centimeter a year.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...at least the are is free of Japanese boats hunting and killing dolphins and whales for "research.":rolleyes:o_O
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
SamuraiBlue said:
This is the result from the PRC's move into the region.

Don't tell me that nature is going to revive in another decade or two because coral can only grow about once to two centimeter a year.
Click to expand...

I do think they could do things better by not encouraging poachers having free reign. However, these waters have now become highly politicized so environmentalism takes a back seat, this goes with any nation. The politicization of these waters is not just the result of the PRC but the direct claimants themselves since they started to get more aggressive with "enforcement" of fishing in those waters to demonstrate "sovereignty". Instead of concurrently trying to work and establish some sort of civilian fishing agreement/mechanism on the side that does not touch the issue of sovereignty disputes, other claimants only focused on the shame/blame game and negative criticism never works for anyone.

Others already highlighted some of the environmental hypocrisies such as Japan's insistence on resuming their "scientific" whale hunts, but I like to ask if the environmental status of the SCS is so important, why aren't countries such as Japan trying to use its clout to mediate between all the claimants on some sort of fishing agreement to manage the resources with no prejudice to the claims themselves? That's a golden opportunity for Japan to play a positive role in world affairs.
 
J

Janiz

Senior Member
joshuatree said:
why aren't countries such as Japan trying to use its clout to mediate between all the claimants on some sort of fishing agreement to manage the resources with no prejudice to the claims themselves? That's a golden opportunity for Japan to play a positive role in world affairs.
Click to expand...
Probably because Japan have their own issues with Chinese red coral poachers on their own waters. They patrol, arrest some from time to time but there are too many of them. The story is the same with South Korea. It's even worse for Koreans than anyone else at the moment I suppose. Stories about illegal Chinese fishermen arrested rock South Korean news almost every week. The Koreans are even starting to call them 'public enemies'

So this isn't only about SCS. There is literally no PRC neighbouring country that doesn't have problems with Chinese overfishing the resources. And for many Korean fishermen this means shutting down their bussiness right now... And pleas stop 'Japanese whales' argument because it has nothing to do with the problem which should be acknowledged.
 
Last edited:
P

PanAsian

Major
Janiz said:
Probably because Japan have their own issues with Chinese red coral poachers on their own waters. They patrol, arrest some from time to time but there are too many of them. The story is the same with South Korea. It's even worse for Koreans than anyone else at the moment I suppose. Stories about illegal Chinese fishermen arrested rock South Korean news almost every week. The Koreans are even starting to call them 'public enemies'

So this isn't only about SCS. There is literally no PRC neighbouring country that doesn't have problems with Chinese overfishing the resources. And for many Korean fishermen this means shutting down their bussiness right now... And pleas stop 'Japanese whales' argument because it has nothing to do with the problem which should be acknowledged.
Click to expand...

This has to do with overfishing, an industrial, economic, and environmental problem that many developing countries and many fishing industries are struggling with. Don't pretend as if there is only a problem with the PRC or only the Chinese fishing industry or only Chinese poachers.
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
Janiz said:
Probably because Japan have their own issues with Chinese red coral poachers on their own waters. They patrol, arrest some from time to time but there are too many of them. The story is the same with South Korea. It's even worse for Koreans than anyone else at the moment I suppose. Stories about illegal Chinese fishermen arrested rock South Korean news almost every week. The Koreans are even starting to call them 'public enemies'
Click to expand...

If the situation is that dire, then it's actually even more reason why Japan should establish a civilian fishing agreement/mechanism with China first and then mediate such in the SCS.

As for fishing issues with South Korea, there's more than what you post. Evidence that civilian agreements are constructive and producing results.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The two sides have been operating a joint fisheries committee for years and there has been a steady decline in illegal fishing activities by Chinese fishermen operating in South Korea's exclusive economic zone (EEZ)

Under the latest deal, South Korean authorities will raise the fines they slap on Chinese fishing vessels that violated rules to 300 million won (US$263,400) from 200 million won, and also have the option to directly confiscate the catch from Chinese fishermen instead of handing the matter over to Chinese authorities.

In addition, the country will create a database on repeated offenders and provide it to China so they can take necessary action. The two countries then concurred on the creation of a sea check point through which all fishing vessels must cross after catching fish that will make it easier for officials to check if rules were followed.

The Chinese side, moreover, agreed to better regulate fishing boats that operate in North Korean waters near the sea demarcation line with South Korea. Such boats have trespassed into waters controlled by South Korea to catch fish and then flee over the demarcation line if they are found to be operating illegally.
Click to expand...

Under the deal, 1,600 Chinese boats can enter South Korea's EEZ and catch 60,000 tons of fish, while the same number of South Korean ships can do the same in the Chinese waters. South Korean boats, however, rarely venture into the Chinese zone because of low fish stocks caused by excessive fishing.
Click to expand...

In fact, another recent episode about a SK navy ship firing warning shots on a Chinese patrol boat was revealed by the SK military that the Chinese patrol boat was following and monitoring Chinese poachers crossing the NLL. The NLL itself is yet another disputed issue but the point not to be missed is that the Chinese are stepping up monitoring poachers in agreements established with SK.
​
Janiz said:
So this isn't only about SCS. There is literally no PRC neighbouring country that doesn't have problems with Chinese overfishing the resources. And for many Korean fishermen this means shutting down their bussiness right now... And pleas stop 'Japanese whales' argument because it has nothing to do with the problem which should be acknowledged.
Click to expand...

You want to say the Japanese whaling argument has nothing to do with the problem but yet you started bringing in ECS and Yellow Sea issues. How does that fly? No, the Japanese whaling issue is relevant since the current thread was started on the issue of environmentalism. That means those that want to accuse needs to be held to the same standard. And my opening statement in my previous reply already established that I would prefer the Chinese to reign in poaching in the SCS so how does that not quantify as acknowledgement?
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
B-52 Accidentally Flies Over China's Man-made Islands
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China on Saturday accused the U.S. of committing a "serious military provocation" by flying an Air Force B-52 strategic bomber over a Chinese-controlled man-made island in the South China Sea.

China's Defense Ministry said in a statement that the U.S. is deliberately raising tensions in the disputed region where China has been aggressively asserting its claims to virtually all islands, reefs and their surrounding seas.

"The actions by the U.S. side constitute a serious military provocation and are rendering more complex and even militarizing conditions in the South China Sea.," the statement said. It demanded Washington immediately take measures to prevent such incidents and damage to relations between the two nations' militaries.

The statement said Chinese military personnel on the island went on high alert during the Dec. 10 overflight and issued warnings demanding the aircraft leave the area. As it has in past, the ministry also said it would take whatever necessary measures to protect China's sovereignty and security.

The U.S. takes no official stance on sovereignty claims in the strategically crucial sea through which $5 trillion in international trade passes each year.

However, Washington insists on freedom of navigation through the sea and its airspace and maintains that China's seven newly created islands do not enjoy traditional rights including a 12-nautical mile (22-kilometer) territorial limit.

News reports quoted Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Bill Urban as saying in Washington that China had raised its complaints over the flight and the U.S. was investigating.

However, Urban said the flight was not a "freedom of navigation" operation, indicating that the plane may have strayed off course. The U.S. uses pre-planned freedom of navigation operations to assert its rights to "innocent passage" in other country's territorial waters.

Critics in the U.S. say freedom of navigation operations around the man-made islands appear to contradict Washington's assertions that they have no right to territorial waters in the first place.

Actions by the U.S. and others challenging Chinese sovereignty claims in the South China have drawn increasingly strident responses from Beijing.
Click to expand...
I wonder whether it was an accident.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Brumby said:
B-52 Accidentally Flies Over China's Man-made Islands
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I wonder whether it was an accident.
Click to expand...

Whether it was or not, I'm sure the Chinese will be assuming as if it wasn't, to be on the safe side.

Still, I've always felt that it didn't matter if the US or anyone overfly the islands or sail within 12nmi. Chinese Navy ATC will continue to request them to fly away on the grounds of preventing miscalculation, and the US or anyone else will continue maintaining it is their right within international law to fly there, so on and so forth... both sides will make noise, but China won't mind too much so long as its activities on the reclaimed islands themselves cannot be physically disrupted.

The only danger of these kind of overflights and patrols, is that the more they occur, the more it might drive the Chinese to militarize the islands to a greater extent than they would have originally intended, which in turn may cause the US to increase its military presence in the area, and so on and so forth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top