South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

confusion · Nov 2, 2015

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Sarawak has plan to ‘deal’ with China gunships

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

| November 1, 2015
The state government has plans to erect more artificial shoals along the state’s coastlines to help overcome the Chinese Navy occupying Luconia Shoals in Sarawak waters.

About 1,000 fishermen from Miri, Kuala Baram, Kuala Sibuti, Kuala Niah and Kuala Suai have agreed with the Sarawak Government that the best way to deal with the Chinese Navy chasing them away from Luconia Shoals was to erect more artificial shoals along the state’s coastlines.

Councilor Jamali Basri, the chairman of the Miri Fishermen’s Association, who disclosed this, added the Sarawak Government plan was the only way to deal with the Chinese Navy occupying Luconia Shoals and the Chinese boats being allowed to fish in the seas there. “Foreign fishermen have also encroached into other Sarawak waters as well despite enforcement efforts by the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA).”

Artificial reefs along the coastline, he added, would ensure a constant supply of marine resources.

...

Local fishermen have reportedly not been able to fish in the seas in the Luconia Shoals area off northern Sarawak since May because they are still being chased away from there and threatened by the Chinese Navy.

...

Jamali said the Chinese Navy has in fact been present in the Gugusan since 2013. “Only fishing boats from China are allowed to enter the area and fish.”

It has been learnt that the Foreign Ministry has been lodging weekly protests with Beijing over the presence of the Chinese Navy in Luconia. China, which is 4,000 km away, claims that Luconia, which is just outside the Spratly Islands, belongs to it.

The Malaysian Navy, reportedly, can communicate with the Chinese Navy on Channel 16 but the latter doesn’t respond.

Sounds like we'll see more building activities in the SCS in the not too distant future.

plawolf · Nov 2, 2015

confusion said:
Sounds like we'll see more building activities in the SCS in the not too distant future.

Sounds like more BS "reporting" *cough* lying *cough*.

The PLAN has not done anything but routine patrolling, it would have been Chinese civilian monitoring/law enforcement ships that would have been involved in any fisheries disputes/enforcement actions etc. Any I would not trust the outlandish claims of that toilet paper rag any further than I can throw an aircraft carrier.

It is also amusing how the Malaysian government could think artificial shoals would grant them jack anything unless they plan to literally build a wall of sand (sounds familiar to anyone?). In which case I wonder what America's view would be on the FON impact of that would be?

I wonder how many times these governments need to be re-taught the lessons that trying to "get tough" with China simply does not work.

Every time someone tries to pull some "get tough" stunt, China simply digs its heels in and stands firm, and the country trying to push China into backing down does themselves an injury or strain from all the effort they put into pushing at an immovable object.

That's all from China merely standing firm. Imagine what would happen if they annoyed China sufficiently to actually push back, even a little.

Jeff Head · Nov 2, 2015

plawolf said:
Sounds like more BS "reporting" *cough* lying *cough*.

Any I would not trust the outlandish claims of that toilet paper rag any further than I can throw an aircraft carrier.

Wolf, this response to a article about Malaysia's intentions is over the top.

There is no sense in insulting them in this way, simply because you do not agree with it. Simply state that you do not agree...with no need to call is BS, or call them "paper rags.".

plawolf said:
It is also amusing how the Malaysian government could think artificial shoals would grant them jack anything unless they plan to literally build a wall of sand (sounds familiar to anyone?).

If they build such shoals near to their current reefs, etc.. And within a few hundreds of meters, or a kilomerter or two...they might have the desired result. OF course, they would have to have a channel allowing their own vessels in, which in turn would allow the Chinese vessels in as well.

plawolf said:
In which case I wonder what America's view would be on the FON impact of that would be?

Exactly the same. The US Navy would make a point of sailing within 12 miles of it and I imagine that Malaysia would have no issue with that.

Just as the US Navy did when the Lassen sailed through. It did not only sail through the Chinese island's limit...it also punctuated it by doing so with others.

plawolf said:
I wonder how many times these governments need to be re-taught the lessons that trying to "get tough" with China simply does not work.

Every time someone tries to pull some "get tough" stunt, China simply digs its heels in and stands firm, and the country trying to push China into backing down does themselves an injury or strain from all the effort they put into pushing at an immovable object.

That's all from China merely standing firm. Imagine what would happen if they annoyed China sufficiently to actually push back, even a little.

Wolf, this is leaning too far towards beating of war drums and just throwing pure nationalistic rhetoric into the discussion.

Please do not go there.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THE MODERATION

Jeff Head · Nov 4, 2015

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Naval Today said:
As part of a Royal Australian Navy Task Group deployment to North and South East Asia, HMA Ships Arunta, Stuart and Sirius have rendezvoused with the French frigate FNS Vendemiaire in South China Sea.

Following port visits to Zhanjiang, China, by HMA Ships Arunta and Stuart and Da Nang, Vietnam, by HMAS Sirius, the ships have met at sea with the French frigate in international waters off the coast of Vietnam. The navies of Australia and France will work on enhancing their level of interoperability and maritime awareness in the region.

The four ships planned to conduct a series of routine tactical maritime training activities, including ship manoeuvering, flying operations with Arunta’s embarked Seahawk helicopter, a refuelling at sea activity with Sirius and a live firing using close range weapons against a static target.

Training was undertaken yesterday, November 3, before the vessels continued their separate missions.

This is a nice grouping of three frigates and one AOR vessel.

2 x Australian Anzac Frigates
1 x Australian AOR
1 x French Floreal Frigate.

In addition to HMAS Arunta, F151, shown above, here are pictures of all of the ships taking part.

HMAS Stuart F153 (Has not undergone the air defense refit yet)

HMAS Arunta, F151, with Sea Hawk helo and air defense radr

HMAS Sirius, AOR

FNS Vendemiaire, F734, Floreal Frigate

FNS Vendemiaire, F734, Floreal Frigate, aft view

confusion · Nov 5, 2015

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Pentagon chief tours carrier in South China Sea, blames China for tension
Ash Carter accompanied by Malaysian counterpart in show of solidarity over disputed waters

U.S. Secretary of Defense Ash Carter flew to a U.S. aircraft carrier in the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
on Thursday, blaming China for rising tension in the region on a visit likely to further strain relations with Beijing.

Carter's visit to the USS Theodore Roosevelt with Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein came just over a week after the USS Lassen, a guided-missile destroyer, challenged territorial limits around one of China's man-made islands in the Spratly archipelago with a so-called freedom-of-navigation patrol.

...

“Being here on the Theodore Roosevelt in the South China Sea is a symbol and signifies the stabilizing presence that the United States has had in this part of the world for decades,” Carter told reporters as the carrier sailed about 150 to 200 nautical miles from the southern tip of the Spratlys and about 70 nautical miles north of Malaysia.

...

The Lassen's commanding officer, Robert C Francis Jr, said the ship came within six to seven nautical miles of the nearest Chinese formation during the patrol.

What lies about "150 to 200 nautical miles from the southern tip of the Spratlys and about 70 nautical miles north of Malaysia"? ("about 70 miles northwest of Borneo." according to

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

") Seems to me that Malaysia and the US are clearly acting in response to the Chinese presence at Luconia Shoals.

Also, the 1st mention I've seen of how close the Lassen came to the Chinese islands.

Jeff Head · Nov 5, 2015

confusion said:
"The Lassen's commanding officer, Robert C Francis Jr, said the ship came within six to seven nautical miles of the nearest Chinese formation during the patrol."

Also, the 1st mention I've seen of how close the Lassen came to the Chinese islands.

Pretty much exactly as I predicted.

I predicted the US vessel would penetrate the 12 mile limit, but would not get within 4 miles.

Brumby · Nov 5, 2015

confusion said:
Seems to me that Malaysia and the US are clearly acting in response to the Chinese presence at Luconia Shoals.

Has Malaysia's position on the SCS shifted given that Malaysia's Defence Minister accompanied Secretary Cater on such a high profile PR exercise? It is possible that Malaysia's patience is running thin over the Luconia Shoals. However It should also be noted that the Defence Minister was recently axed as deputy prime minister and currently there are political differences with the PM. Is the defence minister acting independently outside of the official position is an unknown at this stage.

lcloo · Nov 12, 2015

Brumby said:
Has Malaysia's position on the SCS shifted given that Malaysia's Defence Minister accompanied Secretary Cater on such a high profile PR exercise? It is possible that Malaysia's patience is running thin over the Luconia Shoals. However It should also be noted that the Defence Minister was recently axed as deputy prime minister and currently there are political differences with the PM. Is the defence minister acting independently outside of the official position is an unknown at this stage.

Malaysia's position is staying in balance between US and China. The government is trying not to appear as pro-US or pro-China. Hishmmudidin is closed to both US and China military. What happened in Luconia shoal will not change this.

Secondly, the defence minister Hishammuddin was not axed as deputy prime minister, he never hold the post of DPM before or at present. The deputy prime minster that was axed is Muhyiddin, and was replaced by Ahmad Zaid who also hold the position of home minister.

Brumby · Nov 12, 2015

lcloo said:
Secondly, the defence minister Hishammuddin was not axed as deputy prime minister, he never hold the post of DPM before or at present. The deputy prime minster that was axed is Muhyiddin, and was replaced by Ahmad Zaid who also hold the position of home minister.

Thanks fro pointing out the mistake I made between Hishammuddin and Muhyiddin..

Blackstone · Nov 12, 2015

US trotting out the encirclement playbook again? Would China see it as militarizing the area and act accordingly?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

When this Philippine coastal town rid itself two decades ago of a giant US naval base, it wanted to shake off a colonial past and reject the “ugly Americans.” Yet today the town is once again welcoming American military personnel and viewing the US as a vanguard against an increasingly pushy China.

The US Navy began using the base in Subic Bay last year to deliver materiel and personnel for annual joint military exercises. Some 6,000 US personnel came to Subic in April, and are set to return for exercises in 2016 in agreement with Philippine authorities, according to a Western diplomat. US ships are using Subic Bay as a resupply port during routine calls, and two towering merchant marine ships flying American flags were docked here in late October.

On Nov. 17, President Barack Obama is to visit the capital, Manila, as part of a regional economic cooperation event, and he and President Benigno Aquino III are expected to solidify military ties including use of the 60,000-acre Subic facility that the US formally left in 1992.

The return of the Americans follows a deal hammered out with the Philippine military last spring. The Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement grew out of concern here over China’s spread into waters just off the coast here, and China's claim over more than 80 percent of the South China Sea that extends far below the Chinese mainland.

In Olangapo today, a city of 220,000, enthusiasm is strong for a US return. That's due not only to the perceived China threat, but also because the Philippine armed forces, not the Pentagon, will govern the sprawling old base with new rules designed to curb off duty behavior.

After World War II, Subic gained prominence as the largest US naval facility in the Pacific, cherished for its deep water, sheltered spots to anchor ships, and elaborate repair infrastructure.

Yet during the heyday of Subic, US naval personnel gained notoriety for helping turn the area into a zone of hostess bars and prostitution that fostered local crime.

Now, the returning military must stay on approved parts of the base, which has added a well-groomed Harbor Point shopping mall with cinemas and some 200 stores including Starbucks, TGI Friday's, and eventually Gold’s Gym. A midnight to 5 a.m. curfew will be enforced around the base.

To short-circuit charges of a new form of colonialism, the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority, a local governing body, is authorizing Philippine forces to oversee the former base and its returning inhabitants in segments of 15 years.

“My opinion is that US presence within Philippine military bases will be accepted by both the government and the public,” says Ramon Casiple, executive director of the Philippine advocacy group Institute for Political and Electoral Reform.

“However, there should be safeguards to avoid crime incidents involving the local civilian population, since this historically had started the public opinion against US military bases,” he says.

Since the US left, the Barrio Barretto hostess bar district has dropped from 60 to 27 clubs. But problems continue: Last year, a Marine private was charged with killing a transgender man in a local hotel room.

Filipinos, who were colonized by the US from 1898 to 1946 after three centuries of Spanish rule, had resented the US military continuing presence after the end of World War II in 1945.

Now, however, Manila sees China as the regional bully. Chinese vessels have been fishing and exploring for fossil fuel in disputed waters off the islands of Luzon and Palawan. Filipinos worry about China’s “aggressive stance” in the South China Sea, where Beijing has been dredging and forming man-made islands. (Last month, the US Navy sent a warship within 12 nautical miles of an island China disputes as its own.)

In 2012, vessels from China and the Philippines engaged in a bitter standoff over the Scarborough Shoal, a mostly submerged reef chain 123 miles west of Luzon. Mr. Aquino angered China but impressed his own people a year later by asking a UN tribunal to rule on the legal basis for Beijing’s claims to most of the ocean area – a case The Hague has agreed to hear. (China rejects a resolution by international courts.)

“I’d like the military base to stay here because the American military personnel are nice,” says Charlie Dela Cruz, a local motor taxi driver. “The American military means support for resisting China, and that’s good.”

“It’s a big deal for us, with the issue of Scarborough Shoal,” says Lance Gboy, another local who cautiously approves of allowing in US personnel. “Some [of the old problems] have disappeared but some are still here.”

Some opposition parties in the Philippine Senate oppose the return of US forces, and the Supreme Court could take a case on the constitutionality of the US-Philippines defense cooperation agreement. But in recent weeks there have been statements from the military that the terms of the enhanced deal are part of an existing treaty and not subject to a Senate vote.

South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

confusion

Junior Member

plawolf

Lieutenant General

Jeff Head

General

Jeff Head

General

confusion

Junior Member

Jeff Head

General

Brumby

Major

lcloo

Captain

Brumby

Major

Blackstone

Brigadier