Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

ADG_Wraith

Just Hatched
Registered Member
It's interesting the amount of WWII that has been buried under mounds of various national pride. After all, if you talk to the average American, they wouldn't realise that the Australians played a significant role in stopping and turning the tide against the Japanese in New Guinea. Similarly, it's not necessarily well known how much of a role that NZ and Britain (in Burma/India) played in holding that front and tying up more Japanese forces there.
Of course, there are a number of other factors at play when looking at the role that China and Russia played against Japan, not least of which is the lack of cultural interaction and language barriers between the English-speaking world and the Chinese/Russains/Japanese. It's practically unknown about the battle of Khalkhin Gol/Nomohan that shaped the course of the entire war, by causing Japan to hold significant forces in the North to fight the Russians if necessary, but not invading to open a second front against Barbarossa. With the political changes in China, there is little done to promote the actions of Chinese troops during WWII, which Russia, Britain and the US all saw as an effective way to tie up Japan's resources by funding, equipping and training them.

It might sound a bit silly, but one of the ways that Chinese history is trickling through to the West is through entertainment. The Dynasty Warriors series of computer games has helped many westerners to learn about the Three Kingdoms period, for example- they first acquire an interest through the game, and then some of them go on to research the period.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Every Chinese should watch 國殤. At the end of every episode that involved major battles the list of the officers killed were shown. Every one of them are long.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The youtube links:

《國殤》 第一集 重返盧溝橋
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《國殤》 第二集 人為刀俎
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《國殤》 第三集 四十年長跑
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《國殤》 第四集 槍桿子與政權
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《國殤》 第五集 安內?攘外?
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《國殤》 第六集 焚風滿樓
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《國殤》 第七集 乾坤一變
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《國殤》 第八集 最後關頭
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《國殤》 第九集 淞滬會戰(上)
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《國殤》 第十集 淞滬會戰(下)
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《國殤》 第十一集 南京保衛戰
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《國殤》 第十二集 南京大屠城
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《國殤》 第十三集 喋血長空
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《國殤》 第十四集 破釜沉舟
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《國殤》 第十五集 徐州會戰(上)
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《國殤》 第十六集 徐州會戰(下)
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《國殤》 第十七集 大遷徙
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《國殤》 第十八集 武漢會戰
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《國殤》 第十九集 另一個戰場
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《國殤》 第二十集 烽火桃李劫
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《國殤》 第二十一集 中期抗戰
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《國殤》 第二十二集 烽煙再起
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《國殤》 第二十三集 長沙會戰
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《國殤》 第二十四集 禍從天降
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《國殤》 第二十五集 在北風中出擊
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《國殤》 第二十六集 突破封鎖線
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《國殤》 第二十七集 火拼大江中游
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《國殤》 第二十八集 赤手空拳
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《國殤》 第二十九集 疾風迅雷游擊戰
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《國殤》 第三十集 血染的歷史
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《國殤》 第三十一集 死亡工廠731
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《國殤》 第三十二集 苦撑待變
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《國殤》 第三十三集 悲情與豪情
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《國殤》 第三十四集 一狼、二虎、四强
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《國殤》 第三十五集 蔣夫人與抗戰
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《國殤》 第三十六集 長夜漫漫
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《國殤》 第三十七集 鬼哭狼嚎守衡陽
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《國殤》 第三十八集 山窮水盡
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《國殤》 第三十九集 最後的堅持
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《國殤》 第四十集 天亮前後
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Last edited:

nitroy2k

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Every Chinese should watch 國殤. At the end of every episode that involved major battles the list of the officers killed were shown. Every one of them are long.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Every Chinese should watch 國殤. At the end of every episode that involved major battles the list of the officers killed were shown. Every one of them are long.

Every Chinese should watch 國殤. At the end of every episode that involved major battles the list of the officers killed were shown. Every one of them are long.

Hmmm... Nitroy2k... I see that you copied exactly the same words as this Vincent:confused:
 

Kurt

Junior Member
Every Chinese should watch 國殤. At the end of every episode that involved major battles the list of the officers killed were shown. Every one of them are long.

Interesting point of view. Why do they list officers killed and not names of soldiers killed or photographs of all killed?
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Two points, the first one is that there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers killed, the second one is that there are probably no registry available. Most of the soldiers are probably peasants that got pressed into service and got killed after a week or two of training. There are many battles (especially in the beginning) which entire battlions/divisions got wiped out within a few hours after they get into the battlefield
 

inanon

New Member
Registered Member
Not a huge fan of the liberal use of counterfactuals in history, but in my opinion the Japanese would not have begun operations against the USSR even if China had rolled over like Vichy France. Of course such an outcome is not realistic, but it serves its purpose in being so extreme because it shows there are other factors influencing Japanese strategic thinking at the time. Prior to the Japanese advance south, the militarists were divided into two broad groups; those wanting to strike northwards, against the USSR, and those with the 'strike south' policy. Chinese resistance had very little practical or theoretical influence in this argument. The greatest role the Sino-Japanese war played was perhaps in fomenting anti-japanese sentiment in the US, and firmly placing out of Japanese reach a diplomatic compromise with the USA.

Continuing with my "but for" scenario, the Pacific war would have concluded with the USSR rolling through Manchuria, and progressing into Japanese held China. After Midway it no longer mattered how much manpower Japan had; US naval dominance ensured the IJA's strategic role would be reduced to simply defending islands.

This of course does not downplay the role of Chinese resistance in military terms, in their struggle to defend their homes from foreign occupiers; but strategically China could not be compared to the USA, USSR or even Britain given it's contributions in North Africa.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Not a huge fan of the liberal use of counterfactuals in history, but in my opinion the Japanese would not have begun operations against the USSR even if China had rolled over like Vichy France. Of course such an outcome is not realistic, but it serves its purpose in being so extreme because it shows there are other factors influencing Japanese strategic thinking at the time. Prior to the Japanese advance south, the militarists were divided into two broad groups; those wanting to strike northwards, against the USSR, and those with the 'strike south' policy. Chinese resistance had very little practical or theoretical influence in this argument. The greatest role the Sino-Japanese war played was perhaps in fomenting anti-japanese sentiment in the US, and firmly placing out of Japanese reach a diplomatic compromise with the USA.

Continuing with my "but for" scenario, the Pacific war would have concluded with the USSR rolling through Manchuria, and progressing into Japanese held China. After Midway it no longer mattered how much manpower Japan had; US naval dominance ensured the IJA's strategic role would be reduced to simply defending islands.

This of course does not downplay the role of Chinese resistance in military terms, in their struggle to defend their homes from foreign occupiers; but strategically China could not be compared to the USA, USSR or even Britain given it's contributions in North Africa.

Your hypothesis ignores the fact that due to fierce Chinese resistance, the Japanese had to devote vast amounts of resources just to hold on to their occupation. Had China, in your own words, "rolled over like France", Japan would have added the vast resources of NW China to their navy. The IJN was the world's most powerful navy at the beginning of the war. If they had the resources of NW China to match the production of the USN, the outcome of the Pacific War might well have been different.
 
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