Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moon

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

China missed out on first-mover advantage in exploring (and colonizing) the New World.

China should not miss this opportunity to seize the world's first colonial outpost in Outer Space.

There is no point to land Chinese Taikonauts on the lunar surface without a permanent lunar base to back it up. Otherwise, China would be merely imitating what U.S. did in the 1960's and 70's.

There is no point to any permanent manned lunar outpost at current. The subjectivism displayed by some people in thrashing about to seek redress for past inadequacies is unfortunate. One should be more empirical in judging one's own actions. There is no first mover advantage in committing blunders.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

Look I am a firm believer that manned lunar exploration is a must in the 21st century as well as doing so via extended missions but to do so just for nationalist arguments is not really responsible or the right reasons to justify the expenditure of resources. Also one can't just snap there fingers and presto a permanent moon base appears magically.
to explore the moon and do it right will demand lots of Yutu's to pave the way. Deployment of non permanent extended term lunar basses operating for weeks, months maybe a few years at a time. A true semi permanent base though that's decades down the line and such a investment would be best made internationally.
 

Pigsy

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

I be thinking that the Moon is way too hostile for a permanent human colony. It is the ideal environment for a robotic colony though. Mars is better suited for human colonisation.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

So? Just because there is an infinite number of things I don't know, therefore I can not dismiss ideas from cloud cuckoo land as being unworthiness of being listened to ...

The fact that there are an infinite amount of unknown out there does not mean therefore most cloud cuckoo idea has any enough chance of being right to be worth the spittle needed to speak it.
Chuck, it would help you on SD, and your standing amongst other forum members if you would not refer to their thoughts and ideas as such things as "cloud cuckoo," "levitated vision," "head in the clouds," or not being "worth the spittle needed to speak to it," etc.

Such terms are derogatory and reflect a certain level of "better than thou," arrogance. This does not play well when engaging in any kind of constructive dialog with other members of the forum.

Far better to technically explain why something like anti-gravity from your perspective is a technology that may be well out on the event horizon, or that mag-lev to this degree from your perspective is not to the point of being useful or being able to provide the ROI yet.

Personally, I think with significant research going on with things like Magnetic Fusion Confinement, Tokamak Disruptions, etc. that an ultimate Magnetic Field Disruption device leading to gravitational attenuation on mass, a sort of mass or inertia damper if you will, is possible within our lifetime.

As to magnetic levitation being a source for escape velocity "shots," I believe that too is possible. While a track to allow for human insertion at a G force of no more than 3Gs would end up having to be 1,000 miles in length...the ability to launch cargo and other mass at much higher Gs makes it a more likely possibility.

Anyhow, that is the level of discourse that we want here on SD...not just outright negation of ideas and dialog with derogatory and completely dismissive barbs aimed at the other posters without any sort of reasonable dialog associated with why it is not a good idea.

In fact, just cancel the dismissive bars altogether. If you do not agree, and do not think it possible...just say so without the barb, and then explain why.

Thanks.
 
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TyroneG

Banned Idiot
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

There is no point to any permanent manned lunar outpost at current. The subjectivism displayed by some people in thrashing about to seek redress for past inadequacies is unfortunate. One should be more empirical in judging one's own actions. There is no first mover advantage in committing blunders.

of course there's first come first served. If Chinese were the one to set out for new world, then Australia, America would be speaking Chinese instead of English.

Committing blunders, lol, depend whose perspective it is.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

Deleted
 
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kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

of course there's first come first served. If Chinese were the one to set out for new world, then Australia, America would be speaking Chinese instead of English.

Committing blunders, lol, depend whose perspective it is.

America wasn't conquered they were colonized. The folks who came here intended to stay due to religious and other persecutions back home. there were other European powers like the French, Spanish, Ditch etc all wanting to colonize the New World but the first true wave of colonization only happened in the early 1600s.
Virginia Dare was British as well and is considered many to be the 'first' American but her story like most from that era is as much half truths and myth so we don;t know the entire truth but historical records points to her being the first born in the New World.
anyway I would assume if the Chinese had landed on US shores (and they very well could have) they would've probably been like the John Cabots and Columbuses instead of the Puritans etc which is to say they probably wouldn't have stayed since there were seafarers and explorers.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

America wasn't conquered they were colonized. The folks who came here intended to stay due to religious and other persecutions back home. there were other European powers like the French, Spanish, Ditch etc all wanting to colonize the New World but the first true wave of colonization only happened in the early 1600s.
Virginia Dare was British as well and is considered many to be the 'first' American but her story like most from that era is as much half truths and myth so we don;t know the entire truth but historical records points to her being the first born in the New World.
anyway I would assume if the Chinese had landed on US shores (and they very well could have) they would've probably been like the John Cabots and Columbuses instead of the Puritans etc which is to say they probably wouldn't have stayed since there were seafarers and explorers.


Colonization is hardly possible without conquest, since America was already occupied and the Europeans weren't invited.

The story of the colonization being primarily based on escaping persecution is essentially a self-serving and self-comforting American fantasy. It is a rather perverse fantasy because the hard core reality is the bulk of American continent was settled by the Spaniards who came clear sightedly, and explicitly, to enrich themselves by dispossessing and enslaving the natives.

A large part of the reason why Europe was quick to colonize America where as China, even if put in the exact same situation, might not have done so eagerly, is custom of inheritance.

The land owner and petty nobility of Europe had long operated under the principle of primogeniture, where the estate is passed on only to the eldest male child. All other male children have to find some other means of making a living, whether by soldiering, by entering the preisthood, or by brigandage. As a result, at any given time, Europe was always full of young people, the second or third born sons of nobility and petty nobility, who had education, some military training, but no independent source of wealth and no easy way of making a living, and therefore on the lookout to strike out and seize an estate of their own. It was primarily this class of people who provided the muscles and filled the ranks of initial surge of European colonization of Americas during 1500s and 1600s.

China traditionally did not operate on primogeniture. Instead estates are divided between all the male children. Consequently, there is usually less of a standing class of young men with training and education, but no means of making a living.

Europe was a pressure cooker of wealth seeking dispossessed second and third born. China was much less so.

This would likely be a dominant factor driving any difference between how China and Europe might treat a sudden opportunity to seize vast tracts of little defended land far away.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

Colonization is hardly possible without conquest, since America was already occupied and the Europeans weren't invited.

The story of the colonization being primarily based on escaping persecution is essentially a self-serving and self-comforting American fantasy. It is a rather perverse fantasy because the hard core reality is the bulk of American continent was settled by the Spaniards who came clearly sightedly, and explicitly, to enrich themselves by dispossessing and enslaving the natives...
Well, this is very off topic, but what you describe is decidedly not the case in the British colonies, Chuck, or the "bulk" of the North American continent for that matter.

My own ancestors on my Dad's side, and my wife's on her mother's side came to America in the 1600s. The did not come to conquer, nor to enslave, they came to find freedom and a better life. And it was a hard life for them.

We have their journals and have read their words about their life and that of their children and grandchildren.

My brother's wife is a Bradford...a direct descendant of William Bradford of the Plymouth colony.

These people worked hard, and in their case some of them barely survived, while many others died. Their desire to come to escape persecution and to practice their faith was in fact why they came. For them and now their ancestors (and many others), those reasons are neither self-serving or self-comforting to those of us who are their legacy.

What you say may well apply to other areas, particularly in much of Mexico and a lot of Central and South America, though I am willing to bet that there are many people whose ancestors came to those areas who will say that they were not Conquistadors, or the ruling elite who sought to enrich themselves. A lot of poor people were sent to the Americas. A lot of people came clearly for religious purposes as missionaries and most of those were not filled with ill intent. General characterizations like this are always risky because there are so many exceptions.

Most of North America was an exception to what you describe. Oh, cases can certainly be found...like the rise of the slave trade in the Southern United States grew as a decidedly bad offshoot of the very foundational principles that the resulting United States espoused, and ended up costing the lives of nearly a million Americans to set aright. But those are exceptions to the major rule of colonization of, and then later immigration to North America.

Now, the Spanish attempts did not carry the day for most of the North American continent, despite their efforts. Most of the original colonization stock of North America are more like the story of my own family and that of my wife, and many other people.

...but, as I said, ALL of this talk about colonization of the American continents is far off topic to the purpose of this thread.

LET'S GET BACK ON TOPIC
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: Should China develope Space Shuttle to transport minerals and resources from Moo

What about a lunar shuttle carrier concept? Where the returning lunar vehicle can rendezvous with the shuttle and safely returning to Earth. Here are various examples been proposed before by NASA and others.

Propulsion%20-%20Shuttle%20carries%20lunar%20transfer%20vehicle.jpg


project+s+bill+nuclear+shuttle.JPG


514_230x230_NoPeel.jpg
 
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