Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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paintgun

Senior Member
J-20 will not be produced more than 200 units, maybe even lower, enough for 3 or 4 regiments perhaps

i strongly believe F-60/J-21 main weapon load will be on pylons, and use weapon bay only configuration for certain missions
like the F-35 does, the dire state it was in were caused more by the CTOL/STOVL/STOL requirement in one airframe, and yes the small airframe size does contribute to complicate the problems
asking for a sizeable weapon bay and sticking a huge lift fan is something the engineers and designers in LM had to went through for the capabilities, the woes F-60 does not have to endure

will the F-60 eats some J-10Bs pie?
IMO the J-10's position as the workhorse is pretty solid in PLAAF, it will also become China's premier export fighter

unless there is a big shift in PLAAF's plans and requirements in the future

there is room for 200-300 F-60s in PLAAF's force structure, say... 20 years from now, plus another hundred or two in PLANAF, without SAC and CAC corroding each other's position
 
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i.e.

Senior Member
paintgun said:
J-20 will not be produced more than 200 units, maybe even lower, enough for 3 or 4 regiments perhaps

i strongly believe F-60/J-21 main weapon load will be on pylons, and use weapon bay only configuration for certain missions
like the F-35 does, the dire state it was in were caused more by the CTOL/STOVL/STOL requirement in one airframe, and yes the small airframe size does contribute to complicate the problems
asking for a sizeable weapon bay and sticking a huge lift fan is something the engineers and designers in LM had to went through for the capabilities, the woes F-60 does not have to endure

will the F-60 eats some J-10Bs pie?
IMO the J-10's position as the workhorse is pretty solid in PLAAF, it will also become China's premier export fighter

unless there is a big shift in PLAAF's plans and requirements in the future

there is room for 200-300 F-60s in PLAAF's force structure, say... 20 years from now, plus another hundred or two in PLANAF, without SAC and CAC corroding each other's position
Click to expand...

whatever this thing is from SAC, it's competition is not J-10B but whatever comes after J-10B. CAC is not doing nothing in except the J-20 in the fighter market.
 
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paintgun

Senior Member
i.e. said:
whatever this thing is from SAC, it's competition is not J-10B but whatever comes after J-10B. CAC is not doing nothing in except the J-20 in the fighter market.
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true, but the force structure is always a balance of requirements and budget allocation across classes of platforms

the single engined J-2X from CAC, student models pretty please :D
it's almost funny now that we can't dismiss anything so easily, like the UAV ahem... RC model from the same event
 
N

no_name

Colonel
i.e. said:
as more and more range and capabilities are sought and new propulsion advances gives us bigger engines.
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Do you think it could be the other way round, that development of ever more powerful engines allows designers include more features to aircraft, increasing their weight as time goes by?
 
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i.e.

Senior Member
no_name said:
Do you think it could be the other way round, that development of ever more powerful engines allows designers include more features to aircraft, increasing their weight as time goes by?
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airplane vehicle requirements drives propulsion, not the other way around.

if our goal is huge endurance on tiny aircraft then all of our energy will pour into electric and fuel cells.
 
I

i.e.

Senior Member
paintgun said:
true, but the force structure is always a balance of requirements and budget allocation across classes of platforms

the single engined J-2X from CAC, student models pretty please :D
it's almost funny now that we can't dismiss anything so easily, like the UAV ahem... RC model from the same event
Click to expand...

in 20 years J-10B will be obsolete vs F-35. or whatever that's top of class. a generation behind. so it will start to wind down.
so they would not rely on J-10B.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
The J-10B is a sufficient fighter for many of China's neighbors, but I do believe the PLA sees greater US involvement in the Pacific despite any efforts to curtail that possibility. It may come in the form of eventual F-35 sales to East and Southeast Asian neighbors, which would certainly warrant a better air force than what J-10Bs could provide.
 
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adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
i.e. said:
in 20 years J-10B will be obsolete vs F-35. or whatever that's top of class. a generation behind. so it will start to wind down.
so they would not rely on J-10B.
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I'd say that the J-10A/B is obsolete vs. the F-35 today. In terms of stealth, radar, technology, etc., the F-35 is very much ahead.

However, the F-35 is $238 million each based on estimated $10 billion sale to Japan (
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). The J-10 is estimated at $28 million each for domestic procurement, J-10B & export pricing is likely to cost more, but not anywhere near what the F-35 will cost.

IMO the South Koreans are probably eyeing the gap between the F-16 and the F-35 with their KF-X program.
 
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Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
plawolf said:
What you have said is all perfectly good and valid, and fits in with my expectations for the internal payload and basic characteristics I would expect the F60 to be capable of.

However, the thing that bothers me the most about the F60, appears to be the thing you have not touched upon - it's purpose. More specifically, it's purpose and role within the PLAAF.

What you have described is a low-end 5th gen air superiority fighter. Why does the PLAAF need that when it has the J20?

Of course the PLAAF cannot just buy and operate J20s, that would be far too expensive and they would end up with too small a fleet. But why does the low end of the hi-low mix have to be a 5th gen? The J10B would be more than capable of forming the "lo" part of the PLAAF's hi-lo mix for the next 2 decades or so.
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Of course PLAAF can eschew a 5th generation "low" in the first place, in favour of a larger number of J-20s backed up by masses of J-10Bs. I'm not sure about the pros and cons, but I'll say that I would be more assured, with a typical hi-lo mix with fighters of the same generation than a mix where the lo is a half generation behind.
 
I

i.e.

Senior Member
adeptitus said:
I'd say that the J-10A/B is obsolete vs. the F-35 today. In terms of stealth, radar, technology, etc., the F-35 is very much ahead.

However, the F-35 is $238 million each based on estimated $10 billion sale to Japan (
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). The J-10 is estimated at $28 million each for domestic procurement, J-10B & export pricing is likely to cost more, but not anywhere near what the F-35 will cost.

IMO the South Koreans are probably eyeing the gap between the F-16 and the F-35 with their KF-X program.
Click to expand...

SK will have whatever it will have , Japan too, India/Russia PAK-FA. plus minor potentants like Australia, Indonesia, vietnam etc etc, and plenty of USAF/USN F-22 and F-35 around china , plus the next generation heavy carrier strike fighter which USN will want in return for support for USAF's new long range bomber. both of which has china inmind.
only a mental patient would think 3-4 regiments of J-20 backed up a masses of J-10B is sufficient, no offense. only a full 5th gen fleet in thousands would suffice, plus new long range strike force, plus space base weapons etc etc.

The long range stealth fighter is the new dreadnaught.
 
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