AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I think this is a case of those taking the pics not posting them promptly for whatever reason. We've seen new pics from events of the past before. I don't think it went around being paraded for publicity.
Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator
- Thread starter RedSky
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I think this is a case of those taking the pics not posting them promptly for whatever reason. We've seen new pics from events of the past before. I don't think it went around being paraded for publicity.
Engineer
Major
Sure, scammer can have customers too.
You are correct, the KF-X program dated back to 2004, but if you pay attention when reading my previous post you would have noticed I specifically used the word "reincarnation". This reincarnation involves stealth features, and was announced on December 27 of 2010, few days after the debut of J-20. My point still stands.they are not trying to build a fifth gen fighter, they stated it clear that it will be inferior to the F-35 and better than the F-16
i dont understand the connection to the J-20, the KF-X program exists back to since the 2004 IIRC
and looking down on China what? where did that come from
The fact that Korea could only go as far as the US allowed is enough justification for my underestimation.
Engineer
Major
So it's an issue of technologies.
So it's an issue of funding too. Unless Korea have enough fund to take up such extra cost, the export potential of the plane will be even more dismal.
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here Jr., there are a lot of bright people over here on our side of the pond working as analysts, and not knowing all the posters on Sino D, lots of our info is generic internet fuzz. Stuff that comes out of your pockets when you dry your clothes, interesting maybe, but no real usefullness. Now the IQ of our current regime, thats another issue? LOL
Don't be sad and don't despair. nothing in this world happens or exists for no reasons. SOB's exist and get well paid for the same reasons we non-SOB's do and not get paid, just for this reality to evolve or devovle the way it should.
Watch it, your American big bro is a "redneck", like I always say its ok to be a hillbilly, just don't be a dumb hillbilly! Thats called a "farmer tan" to you city slickers, and chicks dig em. Seriously most of the western press cadre are "eastern liberals from the city", the farm boys have to be pretty bright to survive out here in "flyover country", as its been branded by the effite snobs. Back to the F-60, I had more or less chalked this bird up as a pipe dream, I think putting it out on parade to generate interest is fundamental to its survival, it takes lots and lots of money to get a new bird up and running in the real world. This forum does generate interest, and it is likely that some of our posters may work for intel of various interests, I don't know that, but I do know they like this kind of freebie info. And Player, just because someone is a peasant doesn't guarantee virtue, any more than having money makes you an SOB, thats class warfare nonsense, and lots of men of "means" hire others and engage in philanthropic endeavors, like designing and bringing the F-60 to market. I like the F-60, I like its looks, and I like its potential to be a "game changer" and offer Chengdu some competition, and thanks for clueing me in on this discussion, but is there "no" J-20 news?
vesicles
Colonel
Many times, these agencies just play dumb so as not to expose their sources. With all the corruption going on in China, I wouldn't be surprised if there are officials inside of PLA and other agencies who are willing to sell classified info for money.
Vini_Vidi_Vici
Junior Member
After all, we're just fans and those in the CIA are pros. Which one is better?
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
If we want in turn to read into things, why would they bother calling it a knock-off of the F-22 and not the F-35? The only thing that makes it look like a F-22 are the tailfins and that's from the artistic concepts not from what's being transported on the truck. It's shaped more similiar to the F-35.
If anyone watched the PBS Frontline documentary, From China with Love, it basically said US intelligence on China comes from electronic surveillance. They have little to no assets on the ground. So even though they can probably find someone important to bribe, I think it comes down to they never even thought of trying it. Plus I think the game is someone usually approaches you to offer intelligence not the other way around. If you go around trying to bribe people to give intelligence, you're out in the open and exposed. I think intelligence agencies were lucky to have Hollywood glamourize them. Because the reality is the vast majority of the intelligence they receive is bad and from someone most likely just looking to make money and not someone that has a romanticized view and loyalty to Western values.
If anyone watched the PBS Frontline documentary, From China with Love, it basically said US intelligence on China comes from electronic surveillance. They have little to no assets on the ground. So even though they can probably find someone important to bribe, I think it comes down to they never even thought of trying it. Plus I think the game is someone usually approaches you to offer intelligence not the other way around. If you go around trying to bribe people to give intelligence, you're out in the open and exposed. I think intelligence agencies were lucky to have Hollywood glamourize them. Because the reality is the vast majority of the intelligence they receive is bad and from someone most likely just looking to make money and not someone that has a romanticized view and loyalty to Western values.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I actually think foreign intelligence agencies tend to have a very hard time trying to turn Chinese nationals.
Many Chinese officials might be corrupt by western standard, but the reality is that it's largely par for the course with working in China, and there is a clear moral line between skimming some money for yourself and betraying one's country that the vast majority of Chinese would never willingly cross. The vast majority of Chinese feel an extremely strong sense of loyalty to China that usually carries over even when they take on different nationalities. It is far more likely that Chinese nationals or people with Chinese heritage would help China's spy agencies rather than work against China.
Look at western intelligence agencies. They desperately want, need even, people with good knowledge and understanding about China who speak good Manderian for their China departments. Since few westerns know Chinese and fewer know anything about Chinese culture, the most expedient thing would be to hear Chinese. Obviously Chinese nationals would be out of the question on security grounds, but there are millions of second and third generation Chinese that they could pick from, yet there are precious few who work for them. Either western intelligence agencies think even these people are too much of a security risk to be worth employing, or they just do not want to work in a job whereby they feel like they might be harming China's interests. Either way, it goes to show that it's harder than you might think to find sell outs even amongst overseas Chinese. It would be even harder to turn Chinese nationals.
In addition, the Chinese put far more emphasis on political ideology when determining who to prompte and use. There is an element of re-education to drill in a sense of patriotism, but also an inherent selection bias that favors those loyal to the country. While this political requirement is often a burden and can holds talented people back, it does have it's benefits. The most obvious would be to make it very difficult for someone who might turn traitor to get into a position of power and authority in the first place.
Just look at the recently exposed case of a Chinese official who supplied secrets to western intelligence agencies. In the movies, it is Chinese spies sending in massuses and taking dirty pictures behind two way mirrors, but in reality, that is the only way western intelligence agencies were able to turn the guy. If an envelope full of Benjimans would have done the trick, you can bet they would not have gone to that much effort.
Anyways, this is all OT and we best get back to talking about the F60
It is no accident that
Many Chinese officials might be corrupt by western standard, but the reality is that it's largely par for the course with working in China, and there is a clear moral line between skimming some money for yourself and betraying one's country that the vast majority of Chinese would never willingly cross. The vast majority of Chinese feel an extremely strong sense of loyalty to China that usually carries over even when they take on different nationalities. It is far more likely that Chinese nationals or people with Chinese heritage would help China's spy agencies rather than work against China.
Look at western intelligence agencies. They desperately want, need even, people with good knowledge and understanding about China who speak good Manderian for their China departments. Since few westerns know Chinese and fewer know anything about Chinese culture, the most expedient thing would be to hear Chinese. Obviously Chinese nationals would be out of the question on security grounds, but there are millions of second and third generation Chinese that they could pick from, yet there are precious few who work for them. Either western intelligence agencies think even these people are too much of a security risk to be worth employing, or they just do not want to work in a job whereby they feel like they might be harming China's interests. Either way, it goes to show that it's harder than you might think to find sell outs even amongst overseas Chinese. It would be even harder to turn Chinese nationals.
In addition, the Chinese put far more emphasis on political ideology when determining who to prompte and use. There is an element of re-education to drill in a sense of patriotism, but also an inherent selection bias that favors those loyal to the country. While this political requirement is often a burden and can holds talented people back, it does have it's benefits. The most obvious would be to make it very difficult for someone who might turn traitor to get into a position of power and authority in the first place.
Just look at the recently exposed case of a Chinese official who supplied secrets to western intelligence agencies. In the movies, it is Chinese spies sending in massuses and taking dirty pictures behind two way mirrors, but in reality, that is the only way western intelligence agencies were able to turn the guy. If an envelope full of Benjimans would have done the trick, you can bet they would not have gone to that much effort.
Anyways, this is all OT and we best get back to talking about the F60
It is no accident that
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