Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

Brumby said:

It is not a case of whether I am happy or not. When you have to resort to discuss a subject in dumpling terms, you are seriously short on facts. The reason you are deficit on facts is because there is no product to discuss - period.

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Brumby said:

Zong-zhi is celebrated during the 5th lunar month for a reason. Dumpling is a sacrificial food item to prevent bad omen. Having to describe the J-31 in dumpling terms is scrapping the barrel on facts because as is there is no product to discuss.

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Brumby said:

Zong-zhi is celebrated during the 5th lunar month for a reason. Dumpling is a sacrificial food item to prevent bad omen. Having to describe the J-31 in dumpling terms is scrapping the barrel on facts because as is there is no product to discuss.

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vesicles said:

Uhhhh... you know “zong-zi” were sacrificial food too. Ancient Chinese made “zong-zi” so that they could dump them into the river to prevent the fish from eating the body of their heroic poet. I don’t want to go into the details now...

Dumplings (jiao-zi), on the other hand, was invented by Zhang Zhongjing, the famous ancient Chinese doctor in the Hang dynasty. He invented dumpling to cure frost bitten ears. At least that’s the story I’ve heard. I’ve never heard of dumpling being sacrificial food.

You might be talking about bao-zi. The legend says the famed military commander Zhuge Liang made “bao-zi” to look like human heads for sacrificial purposes when he was told that he had to make human sacrifices to cross a river. He didn’t like the idea of killing someone just to cross a river. So he ordered his cooks to make these huge buns with meat fillings to throw into the river.

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t2contra said:

We thought it was just for fun, but it is sweet now even though some people are salty.

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SinoSoldier said:

Is that a reference to those sweet or salty rice tamales?

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Just4Fun said:

First, I don't know how good F-22 really is and how good F-35 really is, and I don't want to get into this topic. But I do remember a report of last year regarding a mock fight btwn an F-22 and a Su-35 in Syria. The F-22 was allegedly radar-locked by the Su-35. Although the account is not verified by third party, I think it is quite possible because the Su-35 pilot applied a tactics that maximized Su-35's strength in the fight. In other wards, how good a weapon really is in a real war situation is not completely determined by the people who design and make it, but also determined by the people who use it. Back to the J-31 program, I think it is not only a "possible", but also a "must" that it must be able to fight and beat the F-35 when it is used by PLANAF. In general, I am not a believer of US weaponry superiority. I think Vietnam Air Force, which was trained by PLAAF during the Vietnam war, has more to say about USAF superiority in the air war in Northern Vietnam sky, if PLAAF's scores against USAF during the Korean war are not convincing.

Second, I do believe that Boeing knows more about "aerodynamics" than COMAC. But knowing aerodynamics is one thing, respecting it is another. And it is not related to your ability to walk. I don't believe COMAC the Toddle would keep upgrading engines on a fifty years old air-frame without going through due "aerodynamics" analysis. Anyone with rudimentary knowledge about aerodynamics would like to see the 737 go through a full spectrum aerodynamic analysis once new power plants, that were larger in size, more powerful in thrust, were used, but aerodynamics expert Boeing apparently disagreed. Would you fly on the 737 Max-8 after Boeing tells you its MCAS has be upgraded, thus it is airworthy?

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Air Force Brat said:

You my friend, are suggesting that such a minimalist program "must" be superior to the F-35 in order to be viable??? I'm simply reminding you that the nexus of the JSF program occurred in the early 90's, say around 1993, so its a well funded, (think Billions of Dollars), and well supported program with hundreds of operational aircraft, that is over 25 years old, and has a dozen or so international partners...

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Air Force Brat said:

I'm interested because its a beautiful little airplane, could it look any more like a LockMart bird??

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Air Force Brat said:

lets be honest here, its going to take China just as much engineering and money to bring the FC-31/J-35 into existence, as it took the US to bring the F-35 to its current state of production.... that my friend is the reality facing China....

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manqiangrexue said:

So the only part that I actually agree with you on is that one cannot use the existence of a design to argue its superiority over a rival. That said, he's clearly not referring to the current rejected prototype; he's talking about the J-35 that they are supposedly working on now fitted with WS-19 engines. There no reason whatsoever that this aircraft should be inferior to F-35, although we are comparing an operational bird to something that hadn't even been built yet.


It's more like a stealth MiG-29 since that aircraft was the first dual vertical stabilizer jet and what the LockMart birds look like.


Let's be honest here: that makes no sense at all. Because the US spent an extremely extravagant amount of money to build this weird tri-version jet with awkward functions, that means that China, with late-comer advantage, will spend the same amount of money to get a much more straight-forward single version jet working? There's almost no chance of that, because the J-35 program is much less complicated in requirements (no vert take-off, no 3 versions, etc...), China can learn from US mistakes (both from public information and that many people say China hacked the F-35 data), and because Chinese research is traditionally more cost-effective than American research.

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