Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

ougoah said:

So PLAN is interested in carrier J-20, implying preference? Sorry I'm hopeless at understanding translations.

No matter how clean a J-10 and how much RAM they slap on the plane, it won't be as stealthy as J-31 when it goes into production. That's gotta be obvious the rumour was false.

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From my grasp of Chinese, he seems to be saying that the PLAN normally would've preferred the J-20, but since choosing the J-20 would've required them to wait, they went ahead with the FC-31. But he later said that he was unsure of the carrier-borne aviation division's decision, so nothing is written in concrete I guess.

SinoSoldier said:

From my grasp of Chinese, he seems to be saying that the PLAN normally would've preferred the J-20, but since choosing the J-20 would've required them to wait, they went ahead with the FC-31. But he later said that he was unsure of the carrier-borne aviation division's decision, so nothing is written in concrete I guess.

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Yes, he seems to be implying that while the PLANAF would still like the J-20 eventually, however, they will opt for the FC-31 in the meantime as a bridging aircraft, until Chengdu is able to fill the PLAAF demand for the J-20. So the Air Force will get the J-20, the PLANAF will adopt the FC-31 for the next 15 to 20 years until they are able to buy a Navalized J-20.

At this pace, 20 years later, they will be looking into developing/ testing the J-31's replacement. J-20 will be in MLU stages but surely not worth navalising by then.

SinoSoldier said:

Gongke101 gave some insightful details regarding the entire approval process of the FC-31 project (at least for the PLAN). The Chinese is beyond my scope, so if someone can do a brief translation that would be quite useful.




Link here:

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The first quotation is about general procedure of project proposal from to project approval by the Equipment Development of CMC.

The second quotation is saying that as of March, SAC was still modifying their proposal.

Seems that there is going to be misunderstandings. So let me translate the last quotation of #5504

Q: The Navy airmen are the big plates. As you say, the air force does not see 31, the Navy prefers 20, and the navy can only wait for 20 by 31. If it is based on this theory.

A: AVIC has always hoped to use foreign trade or naval forces to force the Air Force. The Navy uses a lot of money and can share the air force's share as much as possible. This time, we also feel surprised. After all, 13E has already been taken away by 624. Suddenly, it has returned suddenly and quickly. .

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The original Chinese was post

Baymax 发表于 2018-5-16 22:39
Q:海军航空兵才多大盘子。照你这么说，空军看不上31，海军更喜欢20，海军用31只是等不及20。如果基于这种理 ...

A: 中航一直希望用外贸或海军倒逼空军，海军用钱的地方多，能与空军分摊的尽量分摊，这次我们也觉得意外，毕竟13E己经被624拿走了，突然还回来突然又快立项。

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Q: PLANAF's number is small. According to what you said, PLAF does not want 31, PLANAF prefers 20, PLANAF choose 31 is ONLY because they can not wait. If based on this reasoning...

A (Gongke): AVIC always want to use Foreign buyers and PLANAF to push PLAF, PLANAF has lots of places that need money, they prefer to share the cost with PLAF (therefor prefer 20), I am also surprised (that PLANAF choose 31), after all (WS)13E has been taken over by 624, over the sudden (31?) comes back and suddenly close to project approval.

The whole base of the above "31 project being approved" is based on one (another) ambiguous post by Gongke

隐身军机 发表于 2018-5-15 22:54
Q: 那！！我们的四代机总产量能否突破2000？？？包括歼20歼31在内.....

美帝都采购将近2500架F35 ...

A : 空军准备用20同时pkF22及35，数量不会少，海军更喜欢20，但要等，还不如先搞个鹘鹰顶一顶。

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Q: So!! our 4th gen will be over 2000??? Including 20 and 31.....
US is going to have close to 2500 F35 ...

A(Gongke): PLAF prepares to only use 20 to counter F22 and 35, the number will be big, PLANAF prefers 20, but has to wait, it is better to take 31 as a stopgap.

See the bold texts, it is the foundation of the whole thing and it is not clear because Gongke did not say whose idea is this "it is better". Is it PLANAF? Or just his own wish? Different things.

It could be PLANAF can not wait, therefor choose 31. That makes the discussion all meaningful.

It could also be that Gongke and the original poster (of that thread) think "it is better to take 31 as a stopgap". In this case, the whole discussion is totally meaningless, just another round of ridiculous "SAC pushing PLA".

So my thought for the moment is that nothing new has happened or changed that we don't already know.

taxiya said:

Seems that there is going to be misunderstandings. So let me translate the last quotation of #5504


The original Chinese was post

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Q: PLANAF's number is small. According to what you said, PLAF does not want 31, PLANAF prefers 20, PLANAF choose 31 is ONLY because they can not wait. If based on this reasoning...

A (Gongke): AVIC always want to use Foreign buyers and PLANAF to push PLAF, PLANAF has lots of places that need money, they prefer to share the cost with PLAF (therefor prefer 20), I am also surprised (that PLANAF choose 31), after all (WS)13E has been taken over by 624, over the sudden (31?) comes back and suddenly close to project approval.

The whole base of the above "31 project being approved" is based on one (another) ambiguous post by Gongke

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Q: So!! our 4th gen will be over 2000??? Including 20 and 31.....
US is going to have close to 2500 F35 ...

A(Gongke): PLAF prepares to only use 20 to counter F22 and 35, the number will be big, PLANAF prefers 20, but has to wait, it is better to take 31 as a stopgap.

See the bold texts, it is the foundation of the whole thing and it is not clear because Gongke did not say whose idea is this "it is better". Is it PLANAF? Or just his own wish? Different things.

It could be PLANAF can not wait, therefor choose 31. That makes the discussion all meaningful.

It could also be that Gongke and the original poster (of that thread) think "it is better to take 31 as a stopgap". In this case, the whole discussion is totally meaningless, just another round of ridiculous "SAC pushing PLA".

So my thought for the moment is that nothing new has happened or changed that we don't already know.

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That's strange; in a different post (which I quoted earlier) he seems to be saying that the PLANAF ground-based forces have purchased a mix of J-20s and FC-31s. Perhaps the above was referring only to the carrier-borne forces?

SinoSoldier said:

That's strange; in a different post (which I quoted earlier) he seems to be saying that the PLANAF ground-based forces have purchased a mix of J-20s and FC-31s. Perhaps the above was referring only to the carrier-borne forces?

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I am not aware of that, it sounds strange anyway because FC-31 is still years away to be purchased/ordered. Besides it is much easier to adapt J-20 for PLANAF ground based forces than waiting for a whole new platform, many early PLANAF ground based fighters were just ordinary PLAF fighters. Do you have a link to that post? I can give a try to translate.

taxiya said:

I am not aware of that, it sounds strange anyway because FC-31 is still years away to be purchased/ordered. Besides it is much easier to adapt J-20 for PLANAF ground based forces than waiting for a whole new platform, many early PLANAF ground based fighters were just ordinary PLAF fighters. Do you have a link to that post? I can give a try to translate.

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(here it is)

I find this whole thing weird, and I guess it goes to show that even military insiders may not be fully privy to these sort of things, since pb19980515 is fairly convinced that the next-generation carrier-borne fighter will be a medium-weight, conventional-configuration, fighter with a 29.5-30 ton MTOW (i.e. a FC-31 derivative). And now we have folks like gongke101 who are claiming that the project has yet to be approved. Interestingly, "angadow" is claiming that FC-31 project approval might be occurring these few months.

Well it's another round of wait-and-see I guess.

SinoSoldier said:

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(here it is)

I find this whole thing weird, and I guess it goes to show that even military insiders may not be fully privy to these sort of things, since pb19980515 is fairly convinced that the next-generation carrier-borne fighter will be a medium-weight, conventional-configuration, fighter with a 29.5-30 ton MTOW (i.e. a FC-31 derivative). And now we have folks like gongke101 who are claiming that the project has yet to be approved. Interestingly, "angadow" is claiming that FC-31 project approval might be occurring these few months.

Well it's another round of wait-and-see I guess.

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Unless you sit at or near the top of the decision making ladder being an “insider” doesn’t mean you know everything. Not all “insiders” are equal. In fact, I think people like pb and gongke might be better described as small shrimps, not big shrimps. You should be more careful about how you read into these different leaks.

Also “angdow” is a nobody, and you should stop referencing him (or her).

SinoSoldier said:

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(here it is)

I find this whole thing weird, and I guess it goes to show that even military insiders may not be fully privy to these sort of things, since pb19980515 is fairly convinced that the next-generation carrier-borne fighter will be a medium-weight, conventional-configuration, fighter with a 29.5-30 ton MTOW (i.e. a FC-31 derivative). And now we have folks like gongke101 who are claiming that the project has yet to be approved. Interestingly, "angadow" is claiming that FC-31 project approval might be occurring these few months.

Well it's another round of wait-and-see I guess.

Click to expand...

Ok, in that post "gongke" said "好像陆基要了，舰载不清楚。" meaning "it seems that (PLANAF ground based) has taken it, not sure of carrier borne". So he is not certain of anything, or he dilibratly muddied his words not to be invited for tea. P.S. he has claimed to work in one of the engine institute (WS-13?) that is related to FC-31.

Anyways, I always choose to be cautious of believing any "insiders" for many reasons.

So yes, the best is wait and see.