Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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SinoSoldier

Colonel
Until you can provide a simulation or lab result, I'm not buying all the eyeball RCS assertions floating around the interwebs.
The thing is, some times obvious aspects, whether the assessment of which requires detail, can be discerned visually. People are not going to go around and be convinced that a MiG-21 is going to be stealthier than a F-35 until they are fed lab results.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
The thing is, some times obvious aspects, whether the assessment of which requires detail, can be discerned visually. People are not going to go around and be convinced that a MiG-21 is going to be stealthier than a F-35 until they are fed lab results.

And sometimes good engineering can defy the "obvious."
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
I thought J-20 was similar in size and might even be a little smaller than some of the Flankers... Might be slightly smaller than J-15, but should be comparable?

The physical dimensions of the J20 is indeed slightly smaller than the J15, but I would wager the J20 has a lot more internal volume than the Flanker. Now the J20 airframe may actually weight a lot less than the Flanker's because of advancements in manufacturing technology, things like 3D printing of titanium support beams that can save up to 40% of the weight compared to traditional casting etc.

However, you don't take off on empty of minimal loads, and I think there is a very good chance that a J20 fully loaded with fuel and munitions may well be a lot heavier than a similarly loaded J15.

We have seen J20s do short takes offs, but I seriously doubt the J20 was anywhere close to being fully loaded at the time. And let's not forget that a carrier J20 would need additional structural supports that would make the plane even heavier.

It may not be worth while to make a naval J20 without CATOBAR carriers if the naval J20 is going to have major load restrictions in order to take off using the ski jump.

While we are on to practicalities, there is the aforementioned difficulties and weight gain associated with making a land based fighter carrier capable. On top of that, we have space issues. The J15 is already as big as carrier fighters get these days, and the J20 is not that much smaller. If you are using J15s and J20s, you are going to have a significantly smaller air wing than comparable sized carriers.

Generally, its ok to have a big carrier fighter paired with a medium sized one, but two heavyweights serving together has never really been done before.

On top of that, you are going to have combat persistent issues with stealth fighters because they are only really worth if it you limited them to internal carriage only, but then that will greatly limit the number of missiles your air wing can loft. With only 4 BVRAAMs and 2 WVRAAMs, a J20 on internal carriage has half the warload of a J15 fully loaded for AA.

If you go down from 24 J15s to 12 J15s and 12 J20Hs, you are in effect loosing a quarter of you air-to-air firepower and up to half of your strike firepower. That is a big loss, and with an already small air wing, you run a serious risk of being simply overwhelmed if the enemy launch a saturation attack on your carrier.

The small number of naval J20s that can be embarked on a carrier will also limited the production run, spiking unit costs. On top of that, a naval J20 will pretty much have to wait till the Air Force version is complete before development starts, which will put its service entry date way off into the future. Although that may actually work to the naval J20's favour because that would make CATOBAR super carriers more likely to be fielded by the PLAN then.

Is it possible to make a carrier capable J20? Sure, but I am dubious if that makes sense practical or financial sense to do so when there is a far more suitable candidate in the form of the J31.

I feel I have drifted off topic somewhat, but something SAC can consider is to make the engine compartment modular on the J31 to offer alternative engine options. Imagine a J31 with M88-3s to EJ2000s!

Such a carrier capable bird, optimised for air combat with super cruise and typical Chinese pricing and full buyer customisation options for radar weapons and avionics may even tempt the likes of the French and British Royal navies if not for the political concerns.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
The thing is, some times obvious aspects, whether the assessment of which requires detail, can be discerned visually. People are not going to go around and be convinced that a MiG-21 is going to be stealthier than a F-35 until they are fed lab results.

That's true, someone who "knows" what to look for and has seen real data, and how that correlates to actual aerodynamic shapes will be able to "predict" with some element of certainty how stealthy or non-stealthy a given airframe will be. From the comparison of an F-35 and an F-15, someone who has seen the reflective data on both, will likely be able to predict where the reflective data of a third unknown aircraft will fall on a scale???? Just as I have made the apparently "preposterous statement" the I can "see" lift, of course I can't literally see it, but being a pilot and having flown several different types of aircraft, and read pireps and engineering data on possibly hundreds more, I can with some degree of certainty predict the flying characteristics of an airframe by looking at its physical characteristics, of course fly by wire and other variables, may? skew that data?? Brat
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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I'm back from the family weekend !!!!
 

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Deino

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:confused::confused::confused:

The model itself seems interesting, but that colour scheme ... :mad: :(
 

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
:confused::confused::confused:

The model itself seems interesting, but that colour scheme ... :mad: :(

It would actually be amusing if someone actually did paint up their bird like that.

Enemy pilots would be too busy laughing or vomiting to put up much of a fight. :p
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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It would actually be amusing if someone actually did paint up their bird like that.

Enemy pilots would be too busy laughing or vomiting to put up much of a fight. :p

Actually I think it's an attempt to immitate the Japanese "Idolmaster" Manga-series similar to several recent Hasegawa-kits (like the EF, the F-22 and the Su-33).

What would be more interesting is to know, which company makes this model and at what scale !

Deino
 

siegecrossbow

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Don't know if some one else posted this before.

It appears that China is currently in the lead when it comes to 3D laser printing of large aircraft parts. This technique shaves off 90% of the cost since it utilizes the raw material (titanium and aluminum alloy, in this case) in a more efficient manner. It also cuts down weight by 40%. Laser printed parts are used on the J-31. Looks like we don't really have to worry about the bird's weight/payload.
 
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