Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

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plawolf said:
Ah AFB, you are too kind! Stop it or it might go to my head. :p
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I just call em like I see em Wolfie, you seem to be able to put your emotion aside and see the other guys excellance without being threatened by that, but rather challenged. This is what it takes in the real world to get better, its also good to be able to laugh at ourselves, or cry when necessary. As a Christian I realize we are all in this together, and my real brothers are here on Sino Defense, I know I'm among thinking men who care enough to try to understand, and that is encouraging. Don't worry, we won't let it go to your head, happy Thanksgiving guys!


And a happy Thanksgiving to the Folks at Shenyang who keep building these great Flanker variants and the Snowy Owl or J-31 or whatever, if your looking for your first foreign sale call my wife, thats what I want for Christmas this year! AFB
 
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ahadicow

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<China Economic Week>: Some rumors from some foreign media indicated that J-20 and J-31 copy US fighter technologies. What do you think?

<President Lin of AVIC>: Where can we copy? It's impossible! Be honest, even someone let you copy his aviation technologies, it may not work. We used to import technologies from ex Soviet Union, it is still very difficult, how to do that if not allowed to access information? That is impossible. No aviation experts would think so. Who spread the rumors must not aviation experts...

So AVIC admits the designation number is J-31...
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People really don't give aviation designers and engineers credit, do they? To suggest something as complex and technology intensive as 4th gen stealth fighter can be be "copied" or "reverse-engineered". They probably imagine fighter jet as can openers.

I watched a chinese documentry on how they develop WS 6 from a Spey Mk. 202 turbofan. With the real engine, full set of document, expert help in earlier stages, they struggled for 10 years and failed. The science, the expertise and, most importantly, the basic industrial capibility just wasn't there.

It's safe to assume people who believe such stories have never "reverse engineered" anything in their life. Otherwise they would had a hell lot more repect for "reverse engineer" because it requres more knowledge and effort than stright up design and engnieer. Ironicly, so many media pointing at J-20 and J-31 as a evidence of China "copy" or "steal" or "reverse engineer" US technology is grossly underestimaing the level of sophistication of US military techonology. Imagine, if, by eyeballing US plane or hacking to get some incomplete files, China would be able to reproduce the technological masterpiece that US had sunk 20yrs of some of their best engineers, tens of bilions of dollars to develop, wouldn't that make US military aviation industry a complete joke? It's sad to see such ignorance and so little respect paid to the designers of these amazing planes.
 
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ahadicow

Junior Member
it's in the 2nd page of the article linked by escobar in post #2072

据了解，过去沈飞一个型号产品的研发和生产周期是10~15年，而今已经缩短到3~5年。而作为新一代战机的歼-31，军方要求高，进度又紧，沈飞开发这一中国第二款隐形战机原型机仅用了19个月。
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Translation: According to the report, a previous model had a R&D to production cycle of 10 to 15 years, but now that process had been shortened to 3 to 5 years. For the newest generation fighter J-31, the military had made high requirement and tight schedules, but ShenFei(SAC) had used only 19 months to develop its prototype.

So, according to this article, the J-31 was developed under PLA request, so it can be excluded that it was a privately funded venture. Therefore, either PLAAF or PLAN would buy this plane in some shape or form.
 
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ladioussupp

ladioussupp

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escobar said:
R&D for a 6th generation fighter has already started at SAC ???
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I don't know how to start design of next generation fighter without requirement specification? Even for USAF, next generation fighter is still in conceptual stage. It would be defined based on new air war paradigm which is still in illusion.
 
ladioussupp

ladioussupp

Junior Member
ahadicow said:
it's in the 2nd page of the article linked by escobar in post #2072



Translation: According to the report, a previous model had a R&D to production cycle of 10 to 15 years, but now that process had been shortened to 3 to 5 years. For the newest generation fighter J-31, the military had made high requirement and tight schedules, but ShenFei(SAC) had used only 19 months to develop its prototype.

So, according to this article, the J-31 was developed under PLA request, so it can be excluded that it was a privately funded venture. Therefore, either PLAAF or PLAN would buy this plane in some shape or form.
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Receiving PLA requirements may not represent receiving PLA money. Or at least in early stage before building prototype. The conclusion is made a little earlier.
 
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ahadicow

Junior Member
ladioussupp said:
I don't know how to start design of next generation fighter without requirement specification? Even for USAF, next generation fighter is still in conceptual stage. It would be defined based on new air war paradigm which is still in illusion.
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just take the current requirement and put a "x 2" sign after every number and hand it over, therer we go, develop, *whipcrack :D
 
ladioussupp

ladioussupp

Junior Member
ahadicow said:
just take the current requirement and put a "x 2" sign after every number and hand it over, therer we go, develop, *whipcrack :D
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If new air war paradigm is defined by long range airborne laser which is capable to bring down anything flies, Boeing 747-8 may replace F-22 as next generation fighter. If AAM could be networked, manned or ummaned missile trucks may be the next generation fighter. If onboard jammer can jam all radar guided missiles and onboard laser can jam all IIR guided missiles, next generation fighter should arm with guns from teeth to toes.

There are a lot of possibilities in technical advancements. So J-31 maybe the most safe answer because its performance is closed to its design target aircraft, F-35. Why US wasted so many times on developing F-35, I believe that US needs time to think what Uncle Sam and its allies wants in next at least three decades.

However, I think it is useful for SAC or AVIC creates a fast design and prototyping capability for ummaned vehicles. There are still some margins there especially for middle to high level markets. In niche markets, a dozen of production machines may fulfill needs. So it is good to have such capability to tailor iron birds to fit special needs.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

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ladioussupp said:
If new air war paradigm is defined by long range airborne laser which is capable to bring down anything flies, Boeing 747-8 may replace F-22 as next generation fighter. If AAM could be networked, manned or ummaned missile trucks may be the next generation fighter. If onboard jammer can jam all radar guided missiles and onboard laser can jam all IIR guided missiles, next generation fighter should arm with guns from teeth to toes.

Really? How old are you, I am old and I must be "losing It", whatever It is, NO our NGF is not going to be a 747 with lasers, thanks to BHO world peace is springing out all over, and the airborne laser is parked in the desert? WOW!
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ladioussupp

ladioussupp

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Air Force Brat said:
Really? How old are you, I am old and I must be "losing It", whatever It is, NO our NGF is not going to be a 747 with lasers, thanks to BHO world peace is springing out all over, and the airborne laser is parked in the desert? WOW!
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I know that YAL-1 is sealed because airborne laser is not mature enough to replace missiles and guns. But what if it works to blow out anything in the sky, the requirements of NGF would not be traditional further, higher, faster.

Regarding to your question, I'm old enough to admit that I don't know what new air war paradigm is, which forms the technical requirements of next generation fighter of J-20/J-31. It would be a worst nightmare when "x2" next generation fighters meet so-called "game changers" in the future.
 
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