SDF Aerospace and Aerodynamics Corner

MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

latenlazy said:
You keep bringing up the new AL-31 orders, but just because they order new AL-31s does not necessitate that they cannot also be using WS-10s at the same time. Furthermore, that would be contrary to reality. New AL-31 orders does not negate the fact that all new J-11s we're seeing are equipped with WS-10s. The engine is in full production now, whether you accept that or not.

The demand fo turbofans is only going to go up in the next 5 years, since they're going to be introducing the J-15 and maybe a J-16 as well. It's not hard to imagine them ordering more AL-31s in anticipation of supply shortages, given that it's going to take time to expand production of the WS-10. Besides, you make it sound like those 150 engines instantly pop into existence. Technically the physical turbofans don't even exist yet. It will probably take about 5 years to fulfill an order of that size, and frankly that's exactly the same window in which we expect even greater demand for turbofans.
Click to expand...
2004 год – 54 двигателя – поставки 2002-2004 годы



Июль 2005 года – 100 двигателей - поставки 2006-2007 годы (+ опцион на 100 двигателей)



Июнь 2007 года – 100 двигателей – поставки 2009-2010 годы (поставки вышеупомянутого опциона)



Январь 2009 года – 122 двигателя – поставки 2010-2013 годы.



Итого Китай в общей сложности получит 376 двигателя АЛ-31ФН
2004 - 54 Engine - delivery 2002-2004



July 2005 - 100 engines - deliveries, 2006-2007 (+ option for 100 motors)



June 2007 - 100 engines - delivery 2009-2010 (delivery option above)



January 2009 - 122 engine - the supply of 2010-2013.

Total, China in total will receive a 376 engine AL-31FN

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So far China has 376 in order or delivered the new October contract will put that number into near 500, so you xcan calculate a 30-40 J-10s build a year
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
So where's the order for AL-31 for:

January 2010 - ? engines - delivery for 2013-2015

Jan - July of 2011 - ? engines - delivery for 2015-17


Jan - July 2012 - ? engines - delivery for 2017-2019

See the pattern here.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:
2004 год – 54 двигателя – поставки 2002-2004 годы



Июль 2005 года – 100 двигателей - поставки 2006-2007 годы (+ опцион на 100 двигателей)



Июнь 2007 года – 100 двигателей – поставки 2009-2010 годы (поставки вышеупомянутого опциона)



Январь 2009 года – 122 двигателя – поставки 2010-2013 годы.



Итого Китай в общей сложности получит 376 двигателя АЛ-31ФН
2004 - 54 Engine - delivery 2002-2004



July 2005 - 100 engines - deliveries, 2006-2007 (+ option for 100 motors)



June 2007 - 100 engines - delivery 2009-2010 (delivery option above)



January 2009 - 122 engine - the supply of 2010-2013.

Total, China in total will receive a 376 engine AL-31FN

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So far China has 376 in order or delivered the new October contract will put that number into near 500, so you xcan calculate a 30-40 J-10s build a year
Click to expand...
Engine replacement happens every decade plus, even with good maintenance, and there are reserve requirements, which mean not every engine will be equipped. Your inability to understand nuance is staggering.
 
H

HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:
2004 год – 54 двигателя – поставки 2002-2004 годы



Июль 2005 года – 100 двигателей - поставки 2006-2007 годы (+ опцион на 100 двигателей)



Июнь 2007 года – 100 двигателей – поставки 2009-2010 годы (поставки вышеупомянутого опциона)



Январь 2009 года – 122 двигателя – поставки 2010-2013 годы.



Итого Китай в общей сложности получит 376 двигателя АЛ-31ФН
2004 - 54 Engine - delivery 2002-2004



July 2005 - 100 engines - deliveries, 2006-2007 (+ option for 100 motors)



June 2007 - 100 engines - delivery 2009-2010 (delivery option above)



January 2009 - 122 engine - the supply of 2010-2013.

Total, China in total will receive a 376 engine AL-31FN

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So far China has 376 in order or delivered the new October contract will put that number into near 500, so you xcan calculate a 30-40 J-10s build a year
Click to expand...

30-40 J-10 a year? Bit to high. It's about 1 regiment of J-10 a year.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
MiG-29 said:
TWR is an answer,　J-20 i doubt it has at this moment a TWR beyond the unit
Click to expand...

I was talking about the spool up time, not TWR or engine thrust. As an example, the time it takes for the engine to reach 90% max power from idle.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

HKSDU said:
30-40 J-10 a year? Bit to high. It's about 1 regiment of J-10 a year.
Click to expand...

well looking at the contracts it seems they buy 100 engines every 2-3 years, so probably they make 25-40 aircraft a year
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

latenlazy said:
Engine replacement happens every decade plus, even with good maintenance, and there are reserve requirements, which mean not every engine will be equipped. Your inability to understand nuance is staggering.
Click to expand...

this are not engine replacement at least the AL-31FN fo J-10s

Комментарии
Принцип "Цзянь"
27.04.2011
Китай активизировал разработку боевых самолетов


"Рособоронэкспорт" и министерство обороны Китая заключили контракт на поставку азиатской стране 123 двигателей АЛ-31ФН на общую сумму в 500 миллионов долларов, пишет газета "Ведомости".

here it says China and Russia signed the contract for 122 Al-31FNs engines in 2011

В 2003 году министерство обороны Китая приобрело у России 54 двигателя, в 2007-м - 100, а в 2009-м - 122.

it say China bought in 2003 54 Al-31FN for J-10s, in 2007 china bought 100 Al-31FN, in 2009 122 AL-31FN,

China has bought at least 500 Al-31FN for J-10s
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L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:
this are not engine replacement at least the AL-31FN fo J-10s

Комментарии
Принцип "Цзянь"
27.04.2011
Китай активизировал разработку боевых самолетов


"Рособоронэкспорт" и министерство обороны Китая заключили контракт на поставку азиатской стране 123 двигателей АЛ-31ФН на общую сумму в 500 миллионов долларов, пишет газета "Ведомости".

here it says China and Russia signed the contract for 122 Al-31FNs engines in 2011

В 2003 году министерство обороны Китая приобрело у России 54 двигателя, в 2007-м - 100, а в 2009-м - 122.

it say China bought in 2003 54 Al-31FN for J-10s, in 2007 china bought 100 Al-31FN, in 2009 122 AL-31FN,

China has bought at least 500 Al-31FN for J-10s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...
...How does that refute that there were no engine replacements? Also, I'm not sure every one of those instances are valid (I seem to remember the 2009 one being bogus). Usually it's best to use Chinese sources than Russian sources, since Russian sources are notoriously unreliable...
 
H

HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:
well looking at the contracts it seems they buy 100 engines every 2-3 years, so probably they make 25-40 aircraft a year
Click to expand...

OK. Then where are these extra regiments of J-10 situated then? Not all bought engines are used to build new aircraft, they are also used as spares and replacements. If they bought 500 AL-31FN then judging by your thinking they should have 500 J-10's
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:
this are not engine replacement at least the AL-31FN fo J-10s

Комментарии
Принцип "Цзянь"
27.04.2011
Китай активизировал разработку боевых самолетов


"Рособоронэкспорт" и министерство обороны Китая заключили контракт на поставку азиатской стране 123 двигателей АЛ-31ФН на общую сумму в 500 миллионов долларов, пишет газета "Ведомости".

here it says China and Russia signed the contract for 122 Al-31FNs engines in 2011

В 2003 году министерство обороны Китая приобрело у России 54 двигателя, в 2007-м - 100, а в 2009-м - 122.

it say China bought in 2003 54 Al-31FN for J-10s, in 2007 china bought 100 Al-31FN, in 2009 122 AL-31FN,

China has bought at least 500 Al-31FN for J-10s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...

In other words, some of these newly purchased engines will become replacement. Your own source shows that 500 engines were purchased, yet with only 24 J-10s are produced each year over 10 years period there are only 240 J-10s in service right now.

As usual, you are pulling conclusion out of thin air in order to support your original flawed view. You have also yet to provide the statistics to show Al-31FN is more reliable.
 
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