Sad ending of a great empire

SampanViking said:

Northern Ireland would be a very difficult one.
Part of the population would join the Irish Republic, but many of the Unionists would probably rather become part of Scotland rather than be just stuck with England.

Wales is very unlikely to go independent, its not really viable and I think everybody knows it.

The referendum for the SNP is really win win, either they get full independence now or Devolution Max, which will be a considerable increase on current powers.
Devolution was only introduced just before the millennium and the Independence vote has come in less than twenty years. Even if they "lose" this time and have to "make do" with Devolution max, it simply means that they will be back with the question before 2030.

Scotland has all the basic ingredients for going alone and it makes sense for it to do so. I also think that a lot of rubbish has been spoken by the no camp especially over the last week.

Scotland has massive energy and other raw materials potential, especially hydro power, a massive surplus of which could be sold across the border. It also has a large land mass and good communications.

Its biggest drawback to date has been archaic property laws and land ownership, which has stuck huge areas of the country in a 18th/19th Century time warp, with land owned directly by the Crown, vast areas tied up in Landed Gentry Estates, with virtually no development worthy of the name in 300 years.
A vote for Independence could sweep all this away in an instance and allow Scots access to the land the the resources/potential tied up on it.
A Scotland with vast swathes of new cheap development land, untapped natural resources, cheap power and the ability to set it own tax rates would be a power proposition and of course Westminster knows it, which is why they have done everything to stifle this aspect of the debate.

I wish Scotland a resounding Yes Vote next Thursday.

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plawolf said:

Its not a win-win. A "yes" outcome would be catastrophic to both the remaining Uk and the newly founded Scottish economies.

Scotland has remained largely undeveloped because there is no economic value in doing so. It hasn't got the population or the natural resources to finance large scale development or the means to effectively utilise it even if it was developed. I mean, other than the agricultural products, niche cottage industry goods like Whiskey and wool and tourism, and of course oil, what can a newly independent Scotland offer the world economy that someone else doesn't already produce?

North Sea oil is on the decline even as the world is on the cusp of renewables and next generation nuclear power, not to mention the American fracking energy revolution.

Scottish agriculture will suffer when it is hit with the double whammy of being deprived of the EU common agricultural subsidies and loosing the tariff free trading with EU countries. But hey, maybe Russia will be interested?

Tourism will suffer as the British stay away out of spite, and its services sector will largely migrate South as their main business was to service England and London anyways. Come to think of it, people in my city of Newcastle and other northern English cities should probably cheer the independence lot on, as many of those Scottish service sector jobs will likely end up in Northern English cities, where they can avoid the congestion and cost of London while remaining as close to Scotland as possible while still sitting within British territory and jurisdiction.

But I suspect a great deal if not most of those Scottish services sector jobs will simply disappear as the Scottish-English trade they are they to support dries up.

The British have a well established tendency to be ingeniously spiteful when loosing bits of their Empire. Current day hot spots and conflicts right around the world could trace the genesis of their troubles to the parting gifts left by the British on their way out the door. I expect that trend to hold true if the Scots vote for independence.

So forget about sharing the pound or opting out of the national debt or even staying within the EU. The newly diminished UK-lite would use all its power to punish the Scots in the event of independence even it that means cutting off its nose to spite its own face.

Sometimes I think the old saying, hell hath no fury like a lady scorned was coined with old lady Britannia in mind.

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shen said:

is Scotland planning on becoming a republic if the vote is for independence?

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plawolf said:

Its not a win-win. A "yes" outcome would be catastrophic to both the remaining Uk and the newly founded Scottish economies.

Scotland has remained largely undeveloped because there is no economic value in doing so. It hasn't got the population or the natural resources to finance large scale development or the means to effectively utilise it even if it was developed. I mean, other than the agricultural products, niche cottage industry goods like Whiskey and wool and tourism, and of course oil, what can a newly independent Scotland offer the world economy that someone else doesn't already produce?

North Sea oil is on the decline even as the world is on the cusp of renewables and next generation nuclear power, not to mention the American fracking energy revolution.

Scottish agriculture will suffer when it is hit with the double whammy of being deprived of the EU common agricultural subsidies and loosing the tariff free trading with EU countries. But hey, maybe Russia will be interested?

Tourism will suffer as the British stay away out of spite, and its services sector will largely migrate South as their main business was to service England and London anyways. Come to think of it, people in my city of Newcastle and other northern English cities should probably cheer the independence lot on, as many of those Scottish service sector jobs will likely end up in Northern English cities, where they can avoid the congestion and cost of London while remaining as close to Scotland as possible while still sitting within British territory and jurisdiction.

But I suspect a great deal if not most of those Scottish services sector jobs will simply disappear as the Scottish-English trade they are they to support dries up.

The British have a well established tendency to be ingeniously spiteful when loosing bits of their Empire. Current day hot spots and conflicts right around the world could trace the genesis of their troubles to the parting gifts left by the British on their way out the door. I expect that trend to hold true if the Scots vote for independence.

So forget about sharing the pound or opting out of the national debt or even staying within the EU. The newly diminished UK-lite would use all its power to punish the Scots in the event of independence even it that means cutting off its nose to spite its own face.

Sometimes I think the old saying, hell hath no fury like a lady scorned was coined with old lady Britannia in mind.

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Jura said:

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as you can see, I don't have a problem with posting leftist stuff

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