Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Kich said:
There was nothing technical about your question. You were asking users here to guess what might happened to the ship despite all the unknowns we have.
Why? Because you refuse to believe what the Russians claim.

The choices were simple. Who do you choose to believe.
1) Ukraine's claim -- They sunk the ship with prototype ASHM--This is coming from the group that has lied repeatedly throughout this conflict with examples like transport planes shot down or generals killed in the conflict or even the Snake island dead soldiers incident.

2) US claim -- They don't know what happened -- Even though US supports Ukraine, they try to be objective as possible in their analysis but in this instance even they were refuting some of Ukraine's claim who initially had claimed that they had sunk the ship when it was still afloat. US has no reason to deny Ukraine the achievement if they really did strike it.

3) Russia's claim -- Inboard fire caused significant damage -- They have less reason to lie and they could have used this incident to encourage more outrage from Russia's public and increase support for the war. They've probably lied in this conflict but not to the extent of the Ukrainians. And even they've revealed commander's death when they did happen for example and also the embarrasing helicopter strike in Belgorod.

If you take out the US claim, you are left with Ukraine and Russia. Who's more believable? One side lies a lot and exaggerate things and the other has no reason to lie in this instance and will have a hard time to hide the casualties from two missiles striking a ship but so far we have none.

I would not care if you were a regular user or any other user, but you are a MOD. You literally have the power to ban users, end discussions and shut down threads. If you are going to engage in comments, you need to be a little objective and show less bias. And if you think you can't, then stay out of the discussions.
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get a hold of yourself.

There is no objective evidence that has been presented at all.

As far as we have, there are only the word of three interested parties.

whether one of these three has a story that seems more believable, even much more believable, to you, does not constitute objective evidence for that story actually being true.

plenty of the most believable stories are totally made up, and made up specifically to contain those elements which are designed to make them seem even more plausible to an particular interested audience in the absence of direct evidence.

if you imagine yourself to be an incisive assessor of whether a story is true, rest assured all three sides have even more incisive, practiced and talented assessors of what would make a lie more believable to you.

It is entirely reasonable to propose in the absence of direct evidence, we not commit ourselves to believing what actually happened based solely which of the three known prolific liars spun the finest and most credible sounding tale. instead seek to tease out indications that might have been missed, but which are hidden but available from verifiable objective facts.
 
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Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
At this point we should just left it to history. I'm kinda feel that at this moment any academic discussion on what happened to Moskva is gonna be full of trolls. So we better move ahead.

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Anyway i heard India received the S-400's. Congratulations. See if Egyptian Su-35 next.

I wonder how they will deliver those tho considering Volga Dnepr currently suspended their operation.
 
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Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
Stealthflanker said:
At this point we should just left it to history. I'm kinda feel that at this moment any academic discussion on what happened to Moskva is gonna be full of trolls. So we better move ahead.
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There will be some salvage attempt after the war. Some forensic images will come out but the cause will never be agreed upon.
 
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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
I think some photo will surface. if there are two separate areas of substantial damage, then the chances are it was hit by two missiles. if there is only one, then depending on where the damage was, it could either be clear that there were no onboard ammunition there, in which case the damage likely resulted from hit or hits. or it might be located where ambiguous what caused the damage.
 
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