If it manages to stay cheaper than the F-35 with even just 85-90% of the claims fulfilled, it's a bargain and quite the competition, IMO
Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Agreed..
I find it impossible for a brand new modern 5th gen aircraft to only cost the rumoured $30 million price
If Russia really decides to go for such a low price then they would definetely increase the weapons, maintenance, and lifecycle prices.
Lets also not forget that they can increase the prices for updating the software of the plane and adding new capabilities.
Russia might be going for the business model of low-barrier of entry and then increase other prices.
Five missiles in a stealth configuration, can carry additional missiles externally, presumably they’re talking about the smart weapons centre that may be able to engage up to five targets. However it would be kinda funny if they said that just to try and hype up the “checkmate”
lcloo
Captain
If you have bought a certain well known inkjet printer for $59.90, and ended up paying for $100 in replacement ink cartridge in a year, then you know why they are selling it so cheap.
They are probably selling the aircraft at no profit or a very slim profit, but there are many other ways to make huge profit like training, weapons, parts, maintenance etc over the next 20 years.
They're talking about radar.
6 weapon-quality tracks(which is kinda normal for AESA/ARH MRAAM combo).
Simple as that.
Isn’t Russia attempting a somewhat similar conversion of the Crapnetsov?
Kuznetsov was built from the grounds-up as a full flat top, Baku/Gorshkov/Vikramatdiya wasn't.
Also, I don't get all the mocking. If I wanted to see people waving their jingonationalistic dicks like little childs, I'd stick to anglo forums.
Even if that is the plan, 30 million is just unbelievable. Just nonsense.
If it is 85% of the price of F-35, it is still quite the competition. At less than 50% of the price, it's not even serious.
Anyone with a partially working brain is asking "What's the catch?"
At least make the price believable...
Here's another thought:
In 2014 the Russian ruble stood at ~32RUB to 1USD. Now it's ~74RUB to 1USD.
30 million USD is 2,2 billion rubles in 2021 which is 70 million USD at 2014 rates. That's what the price would be if the ruble was still floating per pre-2014 rules. 70 million per plane is plausible from what I've seen in the presentation. Especially is things like engine or weapons integration are not included in the baseline version but are part of the second part of the contract i.e. "maintenance" under Matriyoshka.
Russia does not need to import almost anything for its weapons since they are largely self-sufficient, especially since 2014 and the sanctions. Thanks to Su-57 they have everything they need. Just build a smaller airframe and stick a single engine instead of two.
This means that for the purpose of aggressive export strategy they can price their exports in rubles but denominate them in dollars - meaning they will effectively transfer the benefit of weaker ruble directly onto the customer. It's not a very sustainable strategy for the entire contract but for the thing that matters in politics - the tender for the sale of the aircraft that does not have to involve hard LLC figures....you see where I am going with it?
Russia can "dump" the price of their jets by keeping them exactly at the natural market rate, and they can dump them by more than half.
This is - if you haven't noticed yet - Chinese approach to international trade competition. It worked wonders for China so why wouldn't it work for Russia especially that they are not the ones doing the rate-fixing. It's the western markets dumping the ruble.
Another thing that might play into this is why Russia was keeping their prices higher than the possible minimum in recent years - to gain hard currency reserves. Russia was selling at higher prices because that's how they got ability to gain currency which was denied to them through sanctions. Now they have perhaps other priorities. Perhaps they decided that for high-end and in-demand systems they will keep the price but for this particular product it's going to conquer the markets on price alone? It is not impossible. And in terms of strategic play it is not dumb either.
It's just that this kind of historic irony is almost too ironic to be possible. Which is probably why I kinda want it to be true. I prefer my world to be an absurdist comedy of errors and this really looks like it.
And there's one more thing - the name. Checkmate in English means checkmate but in Russian шахматы means just the game of chess. The name - for what it is intended to signal - doesn't work in Russian. It's either a brilliant idea or a hilarious rookie mistake. Either way it's too good to be true so I want it to be true.
On that note though at MAKs they unveiled a new carrier fighter which is strange since their potential customers for one [India and Turkey] have since developed alternatives to what Russia has to offer in carrier aviation. So either they’ll replace the Sukhoi flankers on their already existing carrier or it’ll remain a pipe dream. Particularly strange given the fact that Russia has decided to build two significantly downgraded LHA ships instead of a proper carrier.Kuznetsov was built from the grounds-up as a full flat top, Baku/Gorshkov/Vikramatdiya wasn't.
Also, I don't get all the mocking. If I wanted to see people waving their jingonationalistic dicks like little childs, I'd stick to anglo forums.
Atleast India got a better than nothing carrier from Russia even if it was a conversion since it’s taken them far too long to finish the Vikrant.