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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Have there own program and inputs it seems unlikely for them to go all in just yet. They may have a set back in loss of F35 program tier status but they can still push hard to get those birds and likely will. Investing in SU57 will burn what F35 chances they have now. Besides that I suspect that Turkey wants total export control for any new program.

I agree that they still want the F-35. For one they already are manufacturing parts for it. For another I think they planned to purchase the F-35B for their carrier. It's not like the Russians had much of a good option for that. I mean the MiG-29K might work? But probably not with a runway that short. Besides it is older tech. Not to mention that they are still in NATO.
I agree that it is more likely they will go with someone else. Supposedly they are partnering with BAE but I wonder if they will be able to get that relation to stick given US attitudes against the Turks lately.
 
I think they were just cut out of that.

...
wait ... Turks ("they") were removed from industrial participation in the F-35 program ("were just cut of of that")??

would you provide a link if I didn't misunderstand ... now checked
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Turkey

Industrial Participation
In total for Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney, F-35 Production Industrial Participation opportunities for Turkish companies are expected to reach more than $12 billion.

... and it goes on and on
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
I doubt that Russia would ever sell Su-57s to anyone, perhaps ... maybe the upcoming MiG Stealth Aircraft might become export material, but certainly not the Su-57s. The collapse of the indian FGFA program bears distinct characteristics, where the OEM is unwilling to part with state tech. The indians must've understood that the Russians weren't gonna budge. Hence the deal collapsed predictably.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
wait ... Turks ("they") were removed from industrial participation in the F-35 program ("were just cut of of that")??

would you provide a link if I didn't misunderstand ... now checked
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Turkey

Industrial Participation
In total for Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney, F-35 Production Industrial Participation opportunities for Turkish companies are expected to reach more than $12 billion.

... and it goes on and on
Your probably right but the first steps to doing so have started with the recent report.
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Since most of the F35 that exist came from the U.S. line with the Japanese line starting, I am not sure they are actively making parts yet. It's easier to kill a program on paper than in active service.
doubt that Russia would ever sell Su-57s to anyone,
Perhaps not in its current form but the Russians need sales to keep their lines open. If they start the mass production line they will have to find buyers for a Export Su57. Otherwise they will only end up with a couple dozen machines.
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
I can understand why they are making this aircraft. The effort is minimal given they had developed most of the technology for the MiG-29K carrier version they developed for India. So, sure, why not. But it still is not cost effective in the least. I think MiG needs to go back to their roots and design single engine aircraft which are effective and have low maintenance costs.

What Russia needs to do is hold onto these design bureaus so they can survive the difficult times and continue developing their skills in limited ways, searching for leapfrog or breakthrough technologies. If Russia ever allows the Su-57 to be exported, it may find orders from PLAAF after IAF receives them if they ever end up getting the FGFA deal to work.

Couldn't agree more, though I'm not sure developing a single engine fighter would be the answer for MiG. In my opinion they (or rather the Russian MoD which refused to adopt the idea) lost a BIG opportunity in 2007 with the Skat UCAV. It was a competent design and seemed to have a fair bit of work done on it*, but Russian authorities at the time didn't seem to understand the UAV/UCAV trend at all. Now they've placed a whole new UCAV project with Sukhoi (Okhotnik-B, rumoured to have flown last month) - they're every bit as capable of doing a credible job on it as MiG of course, but simply have enough on their plate already getting the Su-57 on track.

* Compare photos of the mock-up presented at MAKS 2007 to the nEuron mock-up from le Bourget 2009. The Skat has a lot of detail (control surfaces, landing gear, weapons bays) whereas the nEuron was merely a faithful, life-size reproduction of the outer mold line but singularly devoid of any surface detail (and it had plexiglass poles for landing gear!). Fast forward a few years and nEuron is a reality while pretty much the highest-profile MiG project is a rather lack-lustre rehash of a Cold War design. A disgrace, though (as mentioned) committed primarily by the authorities which set the wrong priorities.
 
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Your probably right but the first steps to doing so have started with the recent report.
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Since most of the F35 that exist came from the U.S. line with the Japanese line starting, I am not sure they are actively making parts yet. ...
while
Lockheed’s F-35 Has a Turkey Problem
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:

tk.jpg


Mar 13, 2018
...

F-35 Project resembles Comecon to me

LOL link for those not coming from Eastern Block:
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time will tell the rest
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Which one is that?

"A rather lack-lustre rehash of a Cold War design" -> MiG-35, obviously.

This may sound harsh, since in many ways it really is what the MiG-29 should have been all along, but as gelgoog says it's coming about 15 years too late to be a bread-winner for MiG. The original Fulcrum always struck me as a 1980s EE Lightning - a real pilot's aircraft with some impressive technology (for example materials), but a one trick pony that was too complex and expensive for the operational utility it offered. Most of these deficiencies are addressed by the MiG-35, but by being so late to the game Sukhoi has poached prospective customers with deeper pockets and the JF-17 those without, not to mention that in an age of 5th generation designs it will not age well from now on.

That said, a JF-17 counterpart was/is clearly not a credible alternative for MiG, its export potential has been shown to be pretty limited as well (and certainly the VKS would be even less likely to adopt a lightweight fighter than the PLAAF). For CAC that's fine, they are making good money selling J-10s to the domestic military, but MiG has no such additional revenue stream. So basically by passing on Skat, the Russian MoD has dangerously overtaxed Sukhoi's resources with the Su-57 AND Okhotnik while leaving MiG to wither on the vine without a sustainable business plan (quite apart from the delay in the service entry of a stealthy UCAV). Great work :(
 
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Klon

Junior Member
Registered Member
Right. In the context of the post, I could only think of unbuilt/future projects, so I thought it was MiG-41.
 
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