I well remember during a oral examination the professor remarked "Rote Teile, schwarze Ziffren", Black parts, red numbers, but that was long ago and working with carbon fibre has been made much easier and cheaper by now.
Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
S400 is a "aerial denial" system
There is only two aircraft In the world that could fly through this type of air space
Those are F22 Raptor and F35
At very high altitude you could fly in E3, E8 J-STARS, U-2 and RQ-4 global hawk
There is only two aircraft In the world that could fly through this type of air space
Those are F22 Raptor and F35
At very high altitude you could fly in E3, E8 J-STARS, U-2 and RQ-4 global hawk
b787
Captain
if you honest and strict that can not be answered until both systems go against each other in real life, why? see
Almaz Antey claims the F-22 has no chance.
both companies have PR campaings
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Brumby
Major
Whilst the current stealth platforms and IADS had not gone head to head, we do know how the prior generation of stealth platform performed against a very concentrated IADS in those days. In the opening day of Operation Desert Storm, F-117's navigated through 500 radars with over 8000 antiaircraft pieces and completed its mission set undetected.
b787
Captain
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Brumby
Major
I am surprised that you bring up the Serbia incident because if that is all that you have to advance your case it is really razor thin. The Serbia incident is well documented in that it was sloppy flight planning that the same route was adopted for weeks. They just had to wait for the opportunity. An outlier under dubious circumstance don't make a case. In contrast, there were 1297 sorties in Operation Desert storm without incident.
Radar science is not some mystical black art. We know when an aerial platform has certain RCS features we have a sense of what the risk profile is in detection range when matched against high frequencies radar. If you wish to advance your case that the S400 or whatever system presents an effective area denial you actually have to specify how that is effected. Frankly, attaching some you tube animated video doesn't cut it because they don't present any technical information. I would not even consider them to be marketing materials for the same reason.
Exact in fact a " tactical problem " and F-117 demonstrated its effectiveness during several operations only one lost and new F-22/35 get a clearly less big RCS can cause problem to S-400 also.
Futur S-500 is different more big only 2 by TEL normaly ? better range as S-400 up to 600 km and mainly able vs BM also at this range, S-400 as latest S-300 have a ABM range of "only " 40/60 km.
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Just for understanding, are you talking about overflying the system? Even the SA-2(D?) could reach the max altitudes of the aircraft you mention.
Overflying S400 type systems with aeroplanes is essentially impossible, as those systems pretty much reach into space.
b787
Captain
one small detail, what do you expect to hear from the USAF? do you think they do not lie?
First fact in 1999, was Yeltsin`s Russia, Serbia did not receive any help by Russia, so basically Serbia had to modify their old SA-3s to down an aircraft that supposedly was immune to the SA-3.
Question 2 when was the F-117 retired and why? we still see F-15s and F-156s and F-18s all are operational but the vaunted F-117 retired why? i mean aircraft that flew in 1970(F-15), 1974 (F-16s) are still flying.
The answer is easy under the air defense umbrella Russia in 2010 could boast the F-117 would not have last, so you do not need a slow, detectable crap that is neither quick or agile, you need a deep penetration fast aircraft like F-22 or thousands of faster slightly more agile and quicker F-35s
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
We covered this before B737. Stealth is not invisibility its a combination of shaping, materials and tactics to camouflage. The F117 kept using the same routes. All the locals had to do was listen for reports of F117 sightings or mysterious aircraft. Then park a Sam sight.
As to the "sudden" retirement of the F117. If it had been the result of the SA3 then why did they wait so long? Could it be oh I don't know... Perhaps because another stealthy aircraft was available for use and carried more weapons? Like say the F22A? And perhaps it was helped because the F117 is a very single mission role aircraft that of penetration bomber and for the past decade + the USAF was dealing with asymmetric warfare against a foe with no Air defense systems and generally speaking Manned aircraft declined.
As to the "sudden" retirement of the F117. If it had been the result of the SA3 then why did they wait so long? Could it be oh I don't know... Perhaps because another stealthy aircraft was available for use and carried more weapons? Like say the F22A? And perhaps it was helped because the F117 is a very single mission role aircraft that of penetration bomber and for the past decade + the USAF was dealing with asymmetric warfare against a foe with no Air defense systems and generally speaking Manned aircraft declined.