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Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
They were supposed to start delivering the Su-57M with AL-51 this year. Instead we get these delayed deliveries in the old configuration. So something must have happened.
No delay - more or less the same cycle as 2023.
Also, I don't know who expected al-51 this year - it wasn't planned for 2024. Heck, have we even seen a single al-51 unit with a flat nozzle?
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
No delay - more or less the same cycle as 2023.
Also, I don't know who expected al-51 this year - it wasn't planned for 2024. Heck, have we even seen a single al-51 unit with a flat nozzle?
Al-51 was supposed to have a flat nozzle? Jeez, I really haven't been paying attention properly.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The AL-51 has been flying in Su-57 prototypes for years. Back then it was still called the Izdeliye 30.

The initial version does not have a flat nozzle.

1726177317148.jpeg
That is a Su-57 prototype with an Izdeliye 30 i.e. AL-51 engine (closest engine) and the AL-41 (furthest engine).

The flat nozzle is expected to come later. AL-51 is supposed to be the first in a family of engines using the same core.

AL-51 has had a long gestation period because it is the first fighter engine designed in Russia using modern materials. Developed after the collapse of the Soviet Union. AL-41 was basically a new engine design, made with modern design techniques, with the already available materials.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
The Su-57 and Su-35 are built at the same factory and building. If you produce more of one you have less space for the other.
The Su-30 is built at completely different facilities.

I agree that they need to replace the Su-30 with something else. Sukhoi is supposedly working on a twin-seat version of the Su-57. I would not be surprised to see them test it this decade.
While a fair point, I meant it in the context of capabilities. At this point the Su-30SM are really lacking compared to the Su-35
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The AL-51 has been flying in Su-57 prototypes for years. Back then it was still called the Izdeliye 30.

The initial version does not have a flat nozzle.
My understanding is that flat one is that we'll get on production ones. The prototype with a traditional nozzle for several years is just that - a prototype.
While a fair point, I meant it in the context of capabilities. At this point the Su-30SM are really lacking compared to the Su-35
SM2 is more interesting than it seems.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
My understanding is that flat one is that we'll get on production ones. The prototype with a traditional nozzle for several years is just that - a prototype.
A flat one that follow the blinds/actuator bumps present on the horizontal tails would hide the nozzle nicely but I think we will see it later on or never on the Su-57. We would have seen prototypes already.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Al-51 was supposed to have a flat nozzle? Jeez, I really haven't been paying attention properly.
when they rolled out the S-70 drone they mentioned its main feature is flat nozzle and the technology developed based on this platform will be used for other manned and unmanned system.
Ukraine conflict has major impact on everything so we will not know for few more years the direction. my theory is based on what is presented on Arabic official media. This Su-57 has the performance that is second to none.

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UAC Shows Off Okhotnik UAV With Flat Jet Nozzle for the First Time​

The technologies tested on prototypes will be used in the creation of other advanced aviation systems, both manned and unmanned.

"The main feature of the new Okhotnik is the flat engine nozzle. Thanks to this, the radar visibility of the machine is reduced. In addition, a new ground control point is being created for the drone, developed taking into account the requirements of the military. These solutions will significantly increase the capabilities of the machine," commented Sergey Chemezov, CEO of the Rostec State Corporation.

In the next story on “Military Acceptance,” Deputy General Designer of the Motor Design Bureau of PJSC “UEC UMPO” Sergei Kuzmin said that the future flat nozzle of the S-70B-1 UAV, grown on a 3D printer, will reduce its visibility to missiles [in the rear hemisphere of the UAV – editor’s note “AR” ].

The flat nozzle effectively disperses the jet stream, and the design features of the inner part of the nozzle cover the hot parts of the engine with cold elements. The infrared guidance system of the missile will not see the hot blades of the engine, in addition, most of the nozzle is hidden under the fuselage of the aircraft, which also reduces visibility for missiles.

The nozzle is manufactured using additive technology, which reduces the time and costs of manufacturing and production preparation.

According to Sergey Kuzmin, the second version of the Okhotnik will be equipped with an engine with a new, flat nozzle. "No Russian fighter currently has such a nozzle. But this is a global trend; since the end of the 20th century, all combat fighters have been made with flat nozzles," he emphasized.

The S-70B-1 uses individual technologies that have proven themselves in the Su-57 fighter, with which it is supposed to be used, including an approach to intellectualization. For example, the Okhotnik can independently return to the base in the event of loss of communication with the operator. This capability is provided by a control system using artificial intelligence.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
SM2 is more interesting than it seems.

I do find the lack of MAWS on the SM2 worrisome, for example. Also, does it has the same radar as the Su-35S or it was bs and it has kept the original Bars?.

One of the reason for the canards was that the Bars was heavier than the original VEP001, so if it the modernization included the switch to the Irbis, shouldn't they remove the canards?.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
It has the same engines. So there is not enough electric power generation to operate the Irbis.
The claim some people are making is that it uses a modified Bars radar with a single TWT from the Irbis with different software.
 
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