Russian efforts to sell the Su-57/PAK FA to China

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TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Biscuits said:
Cost of Su-57: 40-50 million $
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:rolleyes:

That’s installment payments right? Otherwise there is a bridge in Moscow I can sell you.

The Price point you are listing is what the Russians HOPE to sell it for... or Rather hope to buy it for themselves. It’s their objective price. However as with the rest of the SU57 program It’s no where near that yet.
To Think that they could sell it to China for that low at this point in time would mean the Russians short changing themselves so bad they might as well give it to them as gifts. That price point is not a “serious” any thing.
The Russians haven’t been able to bank roll it themselves How the hell will it proliferate?

They tried to use India to finance the R&D on this just as they used them to bank roll the Mig29K and SU30. If the Chinese buy Su57 they will be the new Sucker who pays for the Russian lollipops.

J31 may have smaller engines but it’s not in production it’s in a R&D cycle at this point and subject to change.
I think you have the Engines reversed here J20 could benefit from Su57 engines the new one the Russians have been trying to develop.
 
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Brumby

Brumby

Major
TerraN_EmpirE said:
There is nothing I have seen so far on SU57 that really makes me feel that the PLA doesn’t already have or could do with J20.
From what I have seen on J20 vs SU57
Stealth J20=SU57 I know I know Don’t Eye ball but lets face it all those bolt on parts effect RCS. J20 is smoother save for the Conrad’s
Range J20=SU57 they are about on par with each other.
Avionics J20>SU57 thus far J20 seems more modern.
Armament J20<SU57 The SU57 seems like is has a larger potential interior bay. The Russians pushed for use cruise missiles in SU57. But the Chinese can counter that if they go for smaller diameter types.
Maneuver J20=SU57 So far they seem on par. The Russians over emphasize Air to air maneuver to an extreme but thus far J20 is fairly good is not on par.
Engine J20=Su57 The Su57 doesn’t yet have it’s intended engines but then neither does J20 both are using Flanker engines.

Unless the Russians roll out a Naval version for offering to the PLANAF right now J20 is more ready for production.
The Russian “Offer” I think is more a propaganda pitch than reality,
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If the Russians are willing to sell, I am sure the US would be a willing buyer. LOL

It I am not mistaken, it is my impression that the Russian engine is closer to fruition than the Chinese.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Brumby said:
It I am not mistaken, it is my impression that the Russian engine is closer to fruition than the Chinese.
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TerraN_EmpirE said:
I think you have the Engines reversed here J20 could benefit from Su57 engines the new one the Russians have been trying to develop.
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My point exactly.
J20 seems more mature in a lot of areas aside from the engines which are the weak point. You might throw in the gun too. But to use the claimed 50 million dollar figure is a fantasy.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
TerraN_EmpirE said:
My point exactly.
J20 seems more mature in a lot of areas aside from the engines which are the weak point. You might throw in the gun too. But to use the claimed 50 million dollar figure is a fantasy.
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I think your choice of word "seem" is spot on. A lot of claims can be misinformation and likely remain unverifiable for a long time. With engine, I think it is rather binary, either you have it or not. - there is less mirage room.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
TerraN_EmpirE said:
:rolleyes:

That’s installment payments right? Otherwise there is a bridge in Moscow I can sell you.

The Price point you are listing is what the Russians HOPE to sell it for... or Rather hope to buy it for themselves. It’s their objective price. However as with the rest of the SU57 program It’s no where near that yet.
To Think that they could sell it to China for that low at this point in time would mean the Russians short changing themselves so bad they might as well give it to them as gifts. That price point is not a “serious” any thing.
The Russians haven’t been able to bank roll it themselves How the hell will it proliferate?

They tried to use India to finance the R&D on this just as they used them to bank roll the Mig29K and SU30. If the Chinese buy Su57 they will be the new Sucker who pays for the Russian lollipops.

J31 may have smaller engines but it’s not in production it’s in a R&D cycle at this point and subject to change.
I think you have the Engines reversed here J20 could benefit from Su57 engines the new one the Russians have been trying to develop.
Click to expand...

Here you go, apart from the several benefits that both the Chinese and the Russians would derive from the actual purchase/sale and joint development, there are two intangibles that might drive this purchase/sale,?

#1 If China were able to help with the Su-57 development/deployment, that would allow the Chinese to deflect a significant amount of US presence in the East, onto the Russians in Europe and the Arctic....

#2 and honestly in the interim even more gratifying?? it would be like sticking their finger in India's eye, the Russians are still very ticked off by the Indian diss of the Su-57, and no doubt the Chinese would enjoy circumventing India's purchase of the Su-57, while building their own capability in the South China Sea/East China Sea.

In fact it might be China stringing Russia along, as they would no doubt have significant veto power over future Russian arms sales to India...

with India's track record, I really don't think they will be able to buy the F-35, I could be wrong?? but it comes down to a matter of "history"??
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Brumby said:
I think your choice of word "seem" is spot on. A lot of claims can be misinformation and likely remain unverifiable for a long time. With engine, I think it is rather binary, either you have it or not. - there is less mirage room.
Click to expand...

I think its fairly clear that China's economic growth is slowing?? I would honestly assess the J-20 as a more mature aircraft program, that seemingly? has avoided some of the fairly common pitfalls with a "new" airplane, on the other hand, its seems production is hanging at around 20 aircraft?? so they know there is no "immediate threat", the US is NOT going to provoke China into an armed confrontation.

Many here have surmised that they are waiting on the WS-15 engine to mature.
 
Phead128

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
China will never buy Su-57E, because it has two stealth fighter programs, and even India abandoned the PAKFA program citing inferior stealth design and poor engines.

Why China not throw an extra $3-4 billion on WS-15 engine program rather than squadron of Su-57E?

Just Russians talking for marketing, doesn't mean China wants. China has said nothing, for good reason.
 
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Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
siegecrossbow said:
They'll be able to buy it by 2045 if the Rafale deal is any indication.
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Roger that! it drives me crazy, kinda reminds me of the Democrats in the house, concentrating on everything, but the defense of the Nation. Remember our Indian buddy "Bar Brother", PAK-FA was gonna be invisible because they were using "composites" and jamming, it was be the best fighter aircraft in the world once India started to build it?? just sayin??? Wow
 
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