QBZ-191 service rifle family

Kejora

Junior Member
Registered Member
You can't compare across different rifle families. QBZ-191's carbine variant is called carbine because it has a shorter barrel than the full-length QBZ-191. M4 is called carbine because it has a shorter barrel compared to the regular M16. In other words, what makes a carbine a carbine isn't the absolute length of the barrel but its relative barrel length to that of another member of the same family.
That's my point, definition of full length rifle is getting shorter. What passes as full rifle today would be considered carbine decades ago and their carbine version might be considered rifle in the future.

WW1
Rifle : 740-800mm
Carbine: 590-640mm

WW2
Rifle : 600-660mm
Carbine : 460-500mm

Cold War
Rifle : 400-550mm
Carbine : 200-400mm

Today
Rifle : 350-460mm
Carbine 154-350mm
 
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Aniah

Senior Member
Registered Member
I kinda now understand how other "older" members feel about news and content being trickled down to us. I wish there were more images and news about the new rifle but months with little to nothing... The pain is real.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The term carbine has had different meanings based on the caliber of the weapon. Pre WW1 a rifle with a 21 inch barrel was a carbine. The M16 and just about every modern rifle save for a Barrett M82/M107 would by that old definition class as a carbine. In the modern era the line sits under 18 inches so that’s the whole of the AK and SKS series would fit under carbine class by that definition.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
The term carbine has had different meanings based on the caliber of the weapon. Pre WW1 a rifle with a 21 inch barrel was a carbine. The M16 and just about every modern rifle save for a Barrett M82/M107 would by that old definition class as a carbine. In the modern era the line sits under 18 inches so that’s the whole of the AK and SKS series would fit under carbine class by that definition.
That would be a long story to debate. However, I think you can't use US/Nato definition to set standard on Soviet/Russian weapons just as you can't use WW2's definition to set standard on today's weapon.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
That would be a long story to debate. However, I think you can't use US/Nato definition to set standard on Soviet/Russian weapons just as you can't use WW2's definition to set standard on today's weapon.

The carbine definition predates NATO. Second the term SKS is an Acronym for.... Samozaryadny Karabin sistemy Simonova or Self-loading Carbine of Simonov. And that’s with a 20 inch barrel. SKS was a carbine when compared to the 29 inch barrel of the Mosin Nagant. SKS was being designed as the Germans were being pushed back to Berlin (44) and The AK was designed in the aftermath having been inspired by the StG who’s early form was designated Maschinenkarabiner 1942. German being close enough to English the term Machine Carbine 1942 shows through.
So I am using the proper definition not just from NATO but the Russians themselves and the World war 2 definition fits as they were designed in that era. AK was a carbine same as StG was they both got called Sub machine gun (MP) but that was as the terminology wasn’t clarified yet.
the traditional definition of a carbine was a short rifle or musket used by cavalry.
All modern infantry forces are motorized to some degree, in the old parlance Mounted infantry. Mounted infantry were a class of Cavalry. The Rifles we build for modern infantry were designed for mounted infantry. Or if you wish we could wait for the literal Horse cavalry units of the PLA to get the new weapons. But I think my case is pretty substantial as is.
 

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
A fairly accurate model of the carbine variant.

50203050717_8e1bfe9fb9_o.jpg

Is the optic w/ red dot used by army?
 

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
Not that particular model in the photograph, but a different model with a circular light rail. There are many images of it in this thread.

I have seen those a lot, was wondering if the red dot variant was being adopted too. But with that leupold logo the sight is probably just a model.
 

Sunbud

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have seen those a lot, was wondering if the red dot variant was being adopted too. But with that leupold logo the sight is probably just a model.
To make clear. The pictures optic with the red dot is a commercially available sight called the HAMR from Leopold. This is a sight people have put on the rifle to approximate the PLA optic and probably because it looks cool.

First of all I can guarantee you that the PLA will not be making large scale procurement of or large scale issue of the Leopold HAMR.

Secondly, the QBZ 191 is going to come with a new optic of Chinese origin which has extensively been seen. This optic does not have a red dot and there is no indication that a version with a red dot sight exists.

So forget all these pics where the person has attached a Leopold HAMR, this is another optic completely and not something the PLA will adopt.
 
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