Honestly don't see the point with upgrades to the qbz191 the handguard and butt stock holds up well and the recoil of the qbz191 isn't high either unlike the AR-15 which needs proper CQB Stance during close range encounters if anything MLOK Urgi is just some beauty contest bullshit for the qbz191 rather than having some use for it. The AR-15/M4 needs it because of its awful ergonomics that doesn't compensate to the shooters comfort nor need.
If it’s terrible why is it that the QBZ191 and AK12 were designed to emulate it? The adjustable length of pull, selector switch, shotgun style brake down, buffer receiver extension, Grip angle. These are cues taken from the AR15 and M4 carbine.
The AR15 is one of the most ergonomic rifles on the market. It’s designed in such a manner that even a grandmother can learn to shoot it and shoot it well with more advantages from the design and your average Marine.
The shortfalls of the design that lead to the Improved Upper are receiver group only have two ergonomic improvements. The Mlok rail system which was done as to reduce weight extend the potential of hand guard as well as reduce the bulk from the quad rail system. Removing the A2 style fixed front sight post gas block. This was done to improve ergonomics but also as the system was designed with a mid length gas system so as to improve service life.
These were done though as specialized issue modifications. Though I Do hope in the Future the residual M4A1 in the US adopts them as the M4A1 transitions back to its original intended purpose of a PDW.
Sure you get more grip options on the gun but really it's only useful for weapons who struggle with abysmal recoil that needs you to hug the butt stock into your shoulder blade while having thumb overbore grip or C Clamp
The 5.56x45mm recoil wouldn’t be much more than the 5.8x42mm. If anything the other way around. Still it’s about 7 fpe The C clamp was developed not because of recoil but stabilization. It’s a technique used for moderate to extended range unsupported shooting. Even XM7 Supressed is only about 10 fpe which is not the softest shooter but nowhere near the top end. It’s at the boarder line where a novice shooter can control it easily.
China has specialized attachments for those occasions such as infrared lasers that can have a flashlight equipped on top which completely eliminates the point with MLOK
MLOK came from the civil side of the American shooting community. It’s a practical to tactical transition. This made it a low cost adoption. Mlok gained popularity along side Keymod as the standard was made open source and adopted by the industry who are the same industry who manufacture the accessories for the military and civilian use. Mlok took the lead after testing proved it the better of the two negative space mounting systems.
The US Army like the PLA did looked at an alternative lower profile mounting system on a replacement for the AR15 before Mlok appeared. XM8’s PCAPS system. The problem with said system was that it was proprietary. So if the reflex optic is bad and you want to replace it you have a problem. You need your new optics maker to either build one just for you or buy adapters. Both will cost money.
For the PLA who is a substantially large Army and with their own accessory manufacturing base they might be able to get away with going the proprietary route so long as the mounting point system is built to standard. A problem they had with the QBZ95 was that it wasn’t up to spec on many.
Export however would be an issue as anyone looking to buy the QBZ191 would want to be able to field said rifle with accessories of their own choice.
As such the Mlok has more than just the DMR role potential as Norinco has shown QBZ191 at arms shows clearly indicating they want export customers. Adopting an international standard would mean that said potential customers would find it easier to integrate with commercial accessories even Chinese sourced.
The PLA doesn't want nor need highly technological or modularized firearms that cost you millions which just adds another additional to the trillions US have invested in firearms and supplies just to get completely swiped away by underequipped cavemen the MCX doesn't change anything it can't go through the mud test and they still haven't addressed the issues with the M4/AR-15 which is what MCX Spear supposedly would be the answer to yet it was wrong instead it became the pageants of firearms rather than a useful asset its no better than you ordinary highly modified M4. it weights more than the M4, still has the awful forward assisst which is still a horrible work around, Its awfully heavy, It has the back charging handle that makes the M1 garand look like spa day and the mag catch response is poor unless you don't overinsert the mag.
::The QTS 11 has entered the Chat::
Next Millions not trillions you Troll. Hell even then it was Afghan Army equipment that was seized. Since when have facts ever mattered?
This isn’t even a coherent argument. It’s ramblings without basis.
Spear wasn’t supposed to fix M4A1 it’s supposed to replace it in a role it wasn’t supposed to take. That of infantry rifle. M4 was supposed to be a Personal defense rifle for soldiers who don’t need rifle for second line troops. It was modified into a carbine for SF units and adopted as a infantry rifle primarily for reduced weight.
XM7 clearly will weight more than M4 due to a caliber increase. Well Spear LT does so because any piston based rifle in the same caliber will vs a impingement based system. The Forward assist isn’t there because it’s needed it’s there as the US Army demanded it. The same for the second charging handle it was there by request of the army. The over insertion is an issue that is being addressed by Sig. Much like many new weapons it has issues to be sorted.
The MCX Spear or should I say MCX's takes on M4 which is worse than the MCX Virtus isn't a improvement its an advertisement that hasn't been tested in proper field yet, and other armies looking at it doesn't mean dirt either.
That’s what normally happens in the US system they don’t just drop them in propaganda parades.
Thats not to say the QBZ191 is perfect, but it sure has its use for many years coming forward considering the PLA won't be warmongering instead remain persistent in their political position unless US does something stupid.
Nation bashing rather than facts. Quality posting at its finest. When in doubt propagandize!!
The spear has so many useless ergonomics on it, why even bother keeping the charging handle if you have one from the side already? why having a over insertion prevention feature? and it seems to overgas pretty fast to which is a bad sign.
First why two charging handles? Oh wait I covered one. The other was that Sig wanted the system to be easy on transitioning from M4A1 to XM7. Hence Sig kept an AR style handle. The Army wanted the side handle which is non reciprocal.
the over insertion issue clearly is an issue that Sig has to work on. Like you said they are just starting field trials and issues like that are going to be ironed out as those go on.
Over gassed? All military rifles are overgassed!! HK416 is over gassed, AKM is overgassed, FAL is over gassed, M4 is overgassed. Who’s talking points are you parroting? Because military rifles overgas by intention it’s for reliability. However the XM7 was designed to try and reduce gas flow back so it’s actually less over gassed. This was done via the Flow through suppresser. As if it was full over gassed the propellent residue would be just nasty. Suppressors on automatic weapons throw chemicals back at the user’s face and Sig and the US Army wanted to reduce that. It’s part of why you also have the US SOCOM SURG program based on the same MCX.
