QBZ-191 service rifle family

Bltizo said:

As part of developing a new service rifle it means various competing designs are evaluated. That process can take years and evaluate multiple designs.

For the PLAs new service rifle, we have had rumours and indications that they've been evaluating designs for the last couple of years and they had settled on a design to go with, and that we would see the new service rifle (i.e. the one they are committing to) during the parade.


In other words, the rifle we are seeing now should be the rifle that is now their new service rifle that they're going to buy on large numbers.

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True, but at least one can get accurate reports and news about the progress of those 2 rifle designs. Instead of pictures and trying to fill the blanks in.
I have read much rumors regarding the QBZ-03 and its potential before and to be frank I was somewhat disappointed by how it turned out in the end.

Viktor Jav said:

Ok then, so let us make it clear as in " Another year another attempt at a new service rifle". 2 more extra words so clear up the matter.

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No that is also inaccurate, because this new service rifle is meant to be the design that the PLA have already committed to.

I.e. it is the new service rifle that they are going to buy in large numbers, and it is the design that they chose after evaluating the various other competing designs after the last few years.

Bltizo said:

No that is also inaccurate, because this new service rifle is meant to be the design that the PLA have already committed to.

I.e. it is the new service rifle that they are going to buy in large numbers, and it is the design that they chose after evaluating the various other competing designs after the last few years.

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The PLA has also commited to the QBZ-03 design, even though they bought it smaller numbers for a different purpose. So I feel that it is accurate enough. If that is the case then we did have to cut that rifle out of the definition even after we both agreed on that.

Viktor Jav said:

True, but at least one can get accurate reports and news about the progress of those 2 rifle designs. Instead of pictures and trying to fill the blanks in.

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Welcome to PLA watching, where our job is to take disparate pictures, rumours and leaks and to try to fill in the blanks.

Let me lay this out for you.
For the last few years we've had rumours and pictures that suggested the PLA had been evaluating various new rifle designs as part of a new modular service rifle for the military.

About last year we had indications that they had settled on a new design as part of that process and that we would see the PLA's new service rifle (aka the winning design) at the national day parade.

It is now the eve of the national day parade and we have seen it on national day rehearsals as well.

This is the new service rifle that won against the various other competing designs.

Bltizo said:

Welcome to PLA watching, where our job is to take disparate pictures, rumours and leaks and to try to fill in the blanks.

Let me lay this out for you.
For the last few years we've had rumours and pictures that suggested the PLA had been evaluating various new rifle designs as part of a new modular service rifle for the military.

About last year we had indications that they had settled on a new design as part of that process and that we would see the PLA's new service rifle (aka the winning design) at the national day parade.

It is now the eve of the national day parade and we have seen it on national day rehearsals as well.

This is the new service rifle that won against the various other competing designs.

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I wish I could feel that way, but I have been through the QBZ-03 experience so I can only ask for your pardon if I do not feel the same sense of surety.

Viktor Jav said:

The PLA has also commited to the QBZ-03 design, even though they bought it smaller numbers for a different purpose. So I feel that it is accurate enough.

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The QBZ-03 entered service in the mid 2000s and only in small numbers as a complement to the QBZ-95.

It's now 2019, about a decade and a half since the QBZ-03 started being introduced in a limited capacity.

... If you're trying to insinuate the QBZ-03 was an attempt to produce a military wide service rifle then let me categorically say that I disagree with you and is completely inconsistent with what we have seen the PLA go with.

Viktor Jav said:

The rifles of which the pictures I have linked to. And I am aware of German and US efforts, but those are not the ones in discussion here, and if asked my reponse would most likely be the same for this Chinese new service rifle

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Your link has only four photos. Let's go through them one by one.

This first one here is a fanboy CGI.


The second one shows off a modified upper with integrated rails for the existing QBZ-95. It's hardly a new rifle. Heck, M16 started its life with a carrying handle, which was later replaced by new uppers of various designs over and over again over the years, but those hardly made it a new rifle.


These last two shows different entries into the competition for a new service rifle, which will be officially unveiled tomorrow during the parade. Hello have you not been following this thread?



So let me ask you again, what did you mean by:

Another year another new service rifle, does anyone has any idea how far this particular one will go ?

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I'll translate... China can't get an assault rifle right.

It's the same logic said with the FC-1. How many versions had the Chinese gone through before it was put into production? Just one is needed to declare failure meaning they're not good enough. Don't talk about other countries because that logic would apply there as well so they want to keep that interpretation solely for China and no one else because let's not to point to other countries' failures especially their own and how they didn't get it right the first time.

Viktor Jav said:

I wish I could feel that way, but I have been through the QBZ-03 experience so I can only ask for your pardon if I do not feel the same sense of surety.

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The QBZ-03 experience is not relevant to the experience of this new service rifle because the PLA has not adopted a new service rifle in recent years with similar ergonomic and modular features to the new service rifle in a way to which the QBZ-03 had.

That is to say; the QBZ-03 was preceded by the QBZ-95. The QBZ-95 was a rifle with a different configuration but otherwise similar lack of ergonomic and lack of modular features. We also had evidence of the QBZ-95 being widely adopted already by the time QBZ-03 started being introduced.

This new service rifle has no preceding "QBZ-95 equivalent".


So there is no logical basis to believe that the QBZ-03 is somehow a relevant experience for the new service rifle.

by78 said:

Your link has only four photos. Let's go through them one by one.

This first one here is a fanboy CGI.

The second one shows off a modified upper with integrated rails for the existing QBZ-95. It's hardly a new rifle. Heck, M16 started its life with a carrying handle, which was later replaced by new uppers of various designs over and over again over the years, but those hardly made it a new rifle.

These last two shows different entries into the competition for a new service rifle, which will be officially unveiled tomorrow during the parade. Hello have you not been following this thread?

So let me ask you again, what did you mean by:

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I am referring to the last two, and I will say that there are some significant redesigns of the weapon we are seeing now compared to the ones we are seen before. So I consider this new rifle a new design, or at least a new variant that the PLA chooses over the earlier ones.
And if we can't agree on that then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this matter.